Subseries: John Lawton, 1985 February 18
Note: Access online.

INTRODUCTION

BIOGRAPHICAL BACKGROUND
Scope and Content Note: Born in Glasgow, Montana, 1917. Family originally from Kickapoo Valley area of Wisconsin. Parents both teachers. Father became county superintendent of schools in Vernon County, Wisconsin, in 1930. John attended three years high school in Hillsboro and graduated from Viroqua high school. Went to University of Wisconsin-Madison; got law degree in 1942. Began practicing law with Lyle Beggs, a progressive Republican assemblyman.

WISCONSIN POLITICS DURING THE 1930s
Scope and Content Note: Democrats unprepared for power when swept into the governorship and control of the assembly in 1932. Had merely filled up the ticket, “and they had some outrageous candidates, and were reactionary.” Lawton was active in the Young Progressives at the University; deeply involved in the 1936, 1938 and 1940 campaigns.

VERY ACTIVE IN ORLAND LOOMIS GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN, 1942
Scope and Content Note: “Matter of fact, all of Loomis' nomination papers were mailed out of my apartment down on State Street.... And of course, with the death of Loomis, that was really the end of the Progressive Party.”

DISSOLUTION OF THE PROGRESSIVE PARTY IN 1946
Scope and Content Note: “The young folks were really split up at that stage.” Gaylord Nelson and one group were determined to help La Follette; they went into the Republican Party. Bob Lewis, later executive secretary of the Farmers' Union, and another group wanted to go into the Democratic Party. Lawton kept a low profile at the time because he had a patronage job working for the Dane County district attorney, Norris Maloney, who intended to follow La Follette back into the Republican Party. Gaylord Nelson ran for the legislature in Polk County on the Republican ticket, “and, I think, luckily was defeated by a very narrow margin.”

INITIAL INVOLVEMENT WITH THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF STATE, COUNTY, AND MUNICIPAL EMPLOYEES (AFSCME)
Scope and Content Note: While in the district attorney's office, a local of AFSCME was formed there and he was elected president of the local. Maloney actually encouraged his staff to join the union. When Lawton left the district attorney's office, he had connections with many unions and became the attorney for the Madison Federation of Labor and several unions in the Madison area. The Taft-Hartley Act was passed about the same time and unions were not accustomed to dealing with the kinds of legal questions this law brought forth. Local unions were advised to get lawyers and many turned to him.

GAYLORD NELSON JOINED LAWTON'S LAW FIRM AFTER THE 1946 ELECTION
Scope and Content Note: Both got active in Democratic politics. Recalls meetings with Bob Tehan, which were attended by himself, Nelson, Miles McMillin, Tom Fairchild and others. Lots of strategy discussion.

LABOR MOVEMENT HAD GONE DEMOCRAT BY 1946
Scope and Content Note: The United Auto Workers (CIO) provided Bill Dodds, a community relations man, who engaged heavily in political organizing.

MORE ON DISSOLUTION OF PROGRESSIVE PARTY IN 1946
Scope and Content Note: Lawton was a delegate to the last convention, but got ill from food poisoning and did not attend the session that voted on the party's future. “I suspect that I was going along with Nelson and Maloney and the others that were going to support Bob at that time.” Voted for La Follette in the 1946 primary, but for Democrat Howard McMurray in the general election.

LIBERAL DEMOCRATS PRIOR TO 1948
Scope and Content Note: McMurray. Jim Dillman. Bill Riley, a Democrat throughout the 1930s, with close connections to the younger Progressives, he kept trying to convince to take over the Democrats. Bob Tehan, very bright, very able, and a strong liberal.

NO OPPOSITION FROM OLD DEMOCRATS TO YOUNG PEOPLE'S ATTEMPTS TO LIBERALIZE THE PARTY
Scope and Content Note: Some retained their legislative offices and continued to be conservative, “but I think they saw the handwriting on the wall, and I think they welcomed the progressives with open arms before it was over with.” Would put Jerry Fox in this category. Also, the Brogan family. These people seemed to be primarily of Irish extraction. There were also a lot of old-time Germans who had been Social Democrats prior to World War I, many of whom had switched to old Bob La Follette because of his position on World War I.

MANY OLDER PROGRESSIVES WHO WENT INTO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FORMED A LIBERAL BLOCK IN THE LEGISLATURE WHICH WORKED WITH THE NEWLY ELECTED LIBERAL DEMOCRATS
Scope and Content Note: Charley Sykes. Arthur Padrutt. Clifford Krueger.

LIBERALIZATION OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAPPENED VERY QUICKLY
Scope and Content Note: “Sort of a wave. When La Follette was defeated, all of a sudden things started to happen.”

REAPPORTIONMENT
Scope and Content Note: One of the reasons the Republicans had been in control for so long was that the state had not been reapportioned for a couple decades or more. When Lawton left the district attorney's office, he, Gaylord Nelson, and Ery Bruner filed suit to see if they could force reapportionment. Hoped to force the issue by blocking an election. Got lots of publicity on the effort, but lost the law suit. The attorney general took the case, even though he was a Republican.

LAWTON WAS NOT AT THE FOUNDING MEETING OF THE DOC, MAY 1948

END OF TAPE 44, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

LAWTON'S PARTICIPATION IN THE DOC WAS PERIPHERAL
Scope and Content Note: Was very busy with his labor clients. Did work within the labor movement for the DOC.

WAS ABLE TO SHOW UNIONS “WHERE THEIR INTERESTS WERE” BY WORKING IN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS
Scope and Content Note: Was able to maintain good relationships with Republican governors. Would introduce labor legislation, “and the roll calls were just dramatic evidence of our problem.”

POLITICALLY ACTIVE UNIONS IN THE LATE 1940s AND EARLY 1950s
Scope and Content Note: AFSCME Firefighters. Building trades were active, but in a less formal way than the others, mainly through COPE (Committee on Political Education).

GEORGE HABERMAN, PRESIDENT OF THE WISCONSIN STATE FEDERATION OF LABOR (WSFL)
Scope and Content Note: Lawton thinks he was a Republican. When President Truman wanted to appoint Bob Tehan a federal judge, Haberman put forth the name of a corporation lawyer. Lawton took him on at a COPE meeting and “when the vote was taken, he didn't have a vote on the floor because it was just an outrage, what he was proposing. His excuse was that we needed Bob in the State Senate. What an outrage to say to a man, you know, 'we need you at this hundred dollar a month job for the rest of your life.” Haberman never belonged to the Republican Party, but never belonged to the Democratic Party either. Because the Republicans were so dominant, Lawton does not blame Haberman “for being cautious at least.” As evidenced by the Employment Peace Act of 1939, there was an element in the Republican Party which wanted to destroy unions, and Lawton feels Haberman's hobnobbing with Republicans may have been in part “a way of protecting his clientele.” Also, Walter Kohler, as governor, was pretty easy for labor to get along with; Lawton and Kohler were pretty good friends. Kohler appointed Lawton to several committees. WSFL secretary-treasurer George Hall was less conservative than Haberman.

LABOR OFTEN EXPECED TOO MUCH OF DEMOCRATS IT HELPED ELECT
Scope and Content Note: Haberman had a nasty feud with Governor Reynolds' staff, for example.

LABOR STARTED CONTRIBUTING SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF MONEY TO DEMOCRATS IN THE EARLY 1960s

ORGANIZING LOCAL DOC UNITS
Scope and Content Note: Lawton's wife was active in this effort, especially in Dane County and surrounding areas, but he “did not get involved in that at all.” His involvement was more through Gaylord Nelson and with his client unions.

TENSIONS WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
Scope and Content Note: Nothing unusual. A normal thing within most any organization in Wisconsin. “A normal human relationship. For example, Madison and Milwaukee always have outstate people jealous of them to some extent--Milwaukee because it commonly is overly aggressive, big city attitudes; Madison because it's looked upon somewhat as an elitist group and not infrequently has rather advanced political positions, somewhat to the left of most of the rest of the state. Then, you just have this business of jockeying for power.” Recalls quite an argument between Henry Reuss and Gaylord Nelson, probably over candidacies for the 1952 senate race. They had a good relationship after that, however.

HERMAN JESSEN
Scope and Content Note: Lawton used to spend time with him when he went north to hunt. Jessen was a German Social Democrat who came to the United States before World War I. Helped organize the painters' union in the Chicago area, but left because “the gangs had moved in.” Made a lot of money as a salesman for Mautz Paint in Madison; then became a mink rancher in Vilas County. “Out of the old Social Democratic mold.” An intellectual, like the leaders of the WSFL prior to Haberman.

FARM AND LABOR ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
Scope and Content Note: Lawton has only a vague recollection of the Farmers' Union and some segments of the labor movement pushing for something along these lines. He was not involved.

EFFECT OF THE CATLIN ACT
Scope and Content Note: “Those were the days when other devises were constantly being used. Labor had never been able to spend a hell of a lot of money anyway. It didn't have it.” In place of direct contributions, labor sponsored fundraisers and the like, which “perhaps were really more effective than giving money because they felt the need for greater activity and I'm of the impression that when it finally was repealled that the proponents of it felt that it wasn't working anyway.” The law was passed at a time when labor was in disarray politically and had little muscle. Hard to say whether the Catlin Act was a cause of those troubles or just a manifestation of the existing political atmosphere.

LABOR'S POLITICAL INFLUENCE PROBABLY PEAKED IN THE EARLY LUCEY ADMINISTRATION
Scope and Content Note: Lawton helped organize an informal political coalition of AFSCME, the Wisconsin Education Association, the Firefighters, the non-union police group, and a group of deputy sheriffs. Working with the rest of labor “we were able to pretty much call the shots around the Capitol for a while there. The emphasis was on the public employee legislation. There wasn't a hell of a lot you could do for the private sector people in terms of labor legislation; it is all preempted by the federal act.” Influence started declining about 1978. Hard to say why; probably just the undulations of politics.

END OF TAPE 44, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

COLLECTIVE BARGAINING LEGISLATION FOR PUBLIC EMPLOYEES
Scope and Content Note: Legislation for county and municipal employees was first passed in 1959, “but it was just a paragraph. In 1961 we substantially added to it.” Substantially changed in 1973, with the addition of the fair share agreement, amongst other things. In 1977, the mediation-arbitration features were added. State employee collective bargaining law passed in 1973. Compulsory binding arbitration for firemen and police. A big start during the Nelson administration and substantial improvements under the Lucey administration. The first bill giving public employees the right to organize was passed during the Walter Kohler Jr. administration, and he vetoed it. Also, Republican Governor Warren Knowles vetoed fair share agreement legislation.

EFFORTS TO FROM A FARMER-LABOR PARTY
Scope and Content Note: From time to time when economic groups get frustrated. Does not see this happening in the near future. “The farmers, there's going to be so few of them left, there's nobody to start a farmer-labor party with in Wisconsin.”

WISCONSIN RURAL AREAS BECOMING “CLUTTERED UP” WITH HOMES OF WORKING PEOPLE
Scope and Content Note: Many Twin Cities workers live in Wisconsin rural areas and commute daily.

LAWTON RAN FOR CITY COUNCIL IN THE SPRING OF 1946 AND LOST
Scope and Content Note: His only try for elective office. Citywide race at the time. Glad he lost. Not a very active campaign. Did not really want to run, but was urged by labor people to do so.

RETROSPECTIVE ASSESSMENT OF THE WISCONSIN DEMOCRATIC PARTY
Scope and Content Note: “I think it's done quite well. For one thing, we've managed to keep a pretty good delegation in Congress.” “Pretty good job... of running good government. I think once it got started--a lot of the programs that they got started--the Knowles adminstration carried them through just as well. I think the first signs of deterioration in operation of state government occurred during the Dreyfus administration. I think he just did not understand what this system was all about, and put us somewhat into the mess we're in right now, where we had to raise taxes and then lower taxes. The confusion that arises out of that kind of thing is not good.” Democrats able to replace the “less-than-average group of Milwaukee Democrats.” Some of them were scandalous, between their incompetence and their “petty grafting of living off the lobbyists.” Today the Milwaukee delegation is “highly competent.”

SOCIAL WELFARE IN WISCONSIN
Scope and Content Note: Medicaid and Aid to Dependent Children payments higher in Wisconsin “than almost any other state. That was the Democrats in action that did that.” Today some cities, like Madison, are heavily overloaded with welfare payments, and the Governor is recommending the burden be lifted by having the state take over such payments. “I think that's a typical kind of an attitude, contrasted with the kind that would say, 'To hell with it. Let them starve to death.'” General attitude of Democrats to try to help people solve their problems, rather than simply reacting in a negative way.

“HIGH CLASS ADMINISTRATORS” IN DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATIONS
Scope and Content Note: Republican Warren Knowles, also had high quality administrators, including at least one Democrat.

DEMOCRATIC REPLACEMENT OF BELOW AVERAGE MILWAUKEE LEGISLATORS
Scope and Content Note: The labor movement had a hand in this. Many legislative administrative aides became legislators. “When the Democrats had no power..., there was no incentive to try to get some real top-notch people down here because they'd have no influence anyway. But once they developed some power, then it became important that they have good legislators. Right now that delegation is tops.” The replacement occurred primarily during the Lucey administration.

REASON FOR THE RISE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY INWISCONSIN
Scope and Content Note: It was a natural thing to occur once the Progressive Party went out of existence and left a “vacuum, a power gap.” The only reason it took so long was because so many Progressive office-holders went into the Republican Party. Examples of former Progressives who were more liberal as Republicans than many Democrats were. Nelson, Doyle, Fairchild, Lucey and others “were spending one awful lot of their time and energy organizing the party.”

MAINTAINING THE ENTHUSIASM, 1948-1958
Scope and Content Note: “It was very discouraging at times. It was terrible. Some of it was just pure doggedness on the part of people like my wife and some of those women who were keeping that party alive through their stenographic and clerical efforts. Not uncommon to have a mailing of 25,000 pieces out of my house.” Remembers his grand-mother, a typical Irish Democrat from the days of Al Smith, working on a mailing til midnight when she was in her nineties.

SHORTCOMINGS OF THE REPUBLICANS IN THE 1950s
Scope and Content Note: “They just were not doing a good job of running state government. They balanced their budget once by resolution. Damn thing was way out of balance. They just resolved that it was in balance.” So hostile or indifferent to the labor movement, they “had the whole labor movement really stirred up by 1958.” Anecdote about Vernon Thomson refusing to renew Lawton's appointment to what is now the Retirement Research Council. Public employees “Just raised hell with him all over the state, and it wasn't that important. We made it important.”

END OF INTERVIEW