Subseries: John and William Duffy, 1984 December 20
Note: Access online.

INTRODUCTION

WILLIAM DUFFY BIOGRAPHICAL BACKGROUND (William)
Scope and Content Note: Born in Minnesota in 1916. Father worked for International Harvester in Minneapolis. Moved to Town of Holland, Wisconsin, while very young. Father a lifelong progressive. Father a friend of Governor John Blaine and of Phil and Bob La Follette.

LAST PROGRESSIVE PARTY CONVENTION, 1946 (William)
Scope and Content Note: Brown County voted three to two to go into the Republican Party.

AFTER 1946 ELECTION, ACTIVITY IN DEMOCRATIC PARTY PICKED UP CONSIDERABLY (William)
Scope and Content Note: Younger, progressive people, especially in the Madison area, began to appear in the Democratic Party. Old-time Democrats were conservative, as evidenced by their alliance with the Republicans in 1938. Gerald Clifford, the most active Democrat in the Green Bay area, claimed there was too much interest in postmasterships and not enough in getting elected.

WILLIAM ELECTED TO ASSEMBLY IN 1948 (William)
Scope and Content Note: Pat Lucey, Ruth Doyle, Tom Taylor were all elected to the assembly for the first time in 1948.

MORE BIOGRAPHY OF WILLIAM DUFFY (William)
Scope and Content Note: Graduated from St. Mary's College in 1938 and went to University of Wisconsin Law School, finishing in 1941. Entered the service immediately (prior to Pearl Harbor) for a one year hitch, but because of World War II was in for about four years.

JOHN DUFFY BIOGRAPHY (John)
Scope and Content Note: Born in 1921 in Town of Holland, Brown County. Attended parochial schools, graduating from high school in 1938. Farmed for a year. Then went to University of Wisconsin in Madison, eventually getting a law degree. Returned to Green Bay and set up law practice with Ray Eberhardt, who had been Progressive Party County Chairman for many years. Father served on Brown County Board for 35-36 years and ran for the assembly as a Progressive in 1934 and 1936, losing each time. Father was a delegate to the founding convention of the Progressive Party, 1934. While at the UW, John was active in the Young Progressives.

THE BROWN COUNTY DELEGATION TO THE LAST PROGRESSIVE PARTY CONVENTION (John)
Scope and Content Note: Three voted to join the Republicans and two, including John, voted to join the Democrats. Other delegates from Brown County were Ray Eberhardt, John Reynolds, Sr., Alex Shane, and Mrs. Bloomer. Bloomer was the other vote for the Democratic Party. Bob Lewis and others spoke in favor of going to the Democrats and later became active in the Democratic Party.

JOHN'S POLITICAL BIOGRAPHY (John)
Scope and Content Note: Democratic county chairman, 1948 to about 1953. Never ran for public office, but always had a keen interest in politics. Was a delegate to five national Democratic conventions as a Kefauver delegate in 1952 and 1956, Kennedy delegate in 1960, Johnson delegate in 1964, and Eugene McCarthy delegate in 1968. “Spent a very unhappy week in the Windy City getting pushed around.” Vice-chairman of the eighth district DOC for a couple years in the 1950s; William was Chair for a while.

JOHN VOTED FOR HOWARD McMURRAY, DEMOCRAT, IN THE 1946 SENATE PRIMARY, BUT HIS FATHER PROBABLY VOTED FOR BOB LA FOLLETTE (John)
Scope and Content Note: Father then became a Democrat.

WILLIAM PROBABLY VOTED IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY IN 1946 (William)
Scope and Content Note: No one felt La Follette would lose. What hurt La Follette most was his decision to return to the Republican Party.

GROWTH OF DEMOCRATS AMONGST YOUNG PEOPLE (William)
Scope and Content Note: “Jerry Fox was a great catalyst.” (William incorrectly states that Fox was Speaker of the Assembly in 1932.) “He also enjoyed the confidence of all of us because he was a completely reliable and trustworthy individual and open to all of the Roosevelt philosophy of government, which many of the old-time Democrats were not.” Many Wisconsin Democrats had a strong anti-Roosevelt streak in the 1930s.

ANECDOTE ABOUT HOW LOOSELY RUN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAS IN 1948 (William)
Scope and Content Note: A resolution was offered from the floor to endorse Eisenhower for president as a Democrat. Many delegates had already gone home and of those remaining probably a majority of them favored the resolution. A motion to adjourn headed off the resolution, but a rump group met to endorse Eisenhower anyway. Brown County delegation opposed the resolution. “We knew that Truman was our president and...we would not indulge in that kind of foolishness.” “We had such a loose organization that a resolution like that could be offered right from the floor.” It seemed on the motion to adjourn that the noes won, but Chairman Leland McParland ruled that it passed and the convention was over.

WHY LA FOLLETTE RETURNED TO THE REPUBLICANS IN 1946 (John)
Scope and Content Note: He felt that was the easiest way to get re-elected.

ROOSEVELT VISITED GREEN BAY IN 1934 AND ENDORSED BOB LA FOLLETTE FOR U.S. SENATOR (John and William)

END OF TAPE 29, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

PROGRESSIVES IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE STATE PRETTY MUCH BECAME REPUBLICANS (William)

JERRY CLIFFORD AND OTHER LIBERAL ELEMENTS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY PRIOR TO 1946 (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: By 1946 the few statewide leaders the Democratic Party had were mostly liberal. Charles Broughton, Miles McMillin, Bill Evjue. As early as the mid-1930s Evjue had some reservations about Phil La Follette. “Phil was pretty autocratic.”

KATHERINE SULLIVAN, IMPORTANT LIBERAL DEMOCRAT (William)
Scope and Content Note: Of Kaukauna. Husband, W.C. Sullivan, ran for Governor as a Democrat in 1942.

LAVERNE DILWEG (William and John)
Scope and Content Note: A partner of Jerry Clifford, which was the law firm William joined after the War. A Roosevelt Democrat. Elected to Congress in 1942, defeated in 1944. Eighth district is very difficult for a Democrat to win “because Appleton is in it, and Sturgeon Bay and Oconto, a lot of strong...Republican territory.” “You had to have some pull greater than just their political affiliation.” Dilweg's pull was his reknown as a football player for the Green Bay Packers and earlier at Marquette University. He received a lot of support from Republicans, through friendships. His wife had Republican leanings and all his children were Republicans.

DAN HOAN (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: “Very interesting man.”

LIBERAL VOTERS UNION LEAGUE, GREEN BAY

ASSEMBLYMAN ROBERT LYNCH OF GREEN BAY (William)
Scope and Content Note: Had conservative instincts, but went along with the younger, more liberal Democrats. A colleague of Ruth Doyle in the assembly.

VARIOUS GREEN BAY AREA POLITICIANS AND THEIR POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS

DECLINE OF THE PROGRESSIVE PARTY IN WISCONSIN (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: The death of Orland Loomis. Without the governorship, it is difficult to keep a party going. Also, a lot of people became disenchanted with Phil La Follette and the autocratic way he ran the governor's office. Then Phil became close to General Douglas MacArthur, who was not a popular figure amongst liberals. “The time was ripe for the young Democrats. There's no question about it. And most of them saw that.”

TOM FAIRCHILD (William)
Scope and Content Note: First Democrat to be elected statewide (since 1932). “A remarkable individual...very capable...very unique individual.”

DEMOCRATIC ORGANIZING COMMITTEE'S YOUNG TURKS KNEW EACH OTHER AT THE UNIVERSTlY AND FOUND THEMSELVES THROWN TOGETHER AGAIN AFTER THE WAR BECAUSE OF THEIR INTEREST IN REBUILDING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY (William and John)

LABOR VERY PROMINENT IN THE HIGH COUNCILS OF THE DOC (William and John)

DOCTORS ACTIVE IN THE DOC (William and John)

MORE ON KATHERINE SULLIVAN (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: “She challenged everything she ever heard.”

ORGANIZING LOCAL DOC UNITS (William)
Scope and Content Note: William would go out to various counties with Pat Lucey, Tom Taylor, and Ruth Doyle. Carl Thompson visited many areas of the state. Pat Lucey was “a tremendous organizer.”

LITTLE RECOLLECTION OF THE FIRST DOC MEETING IN FOND DU LAC, 1948 (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Suspect it was called by Dan Hoan, Jerry Fox, and Jerry Clifford.

GREENE-TEHAN FIGHT (William)
Scope and Content Note: Greene had the “onus” of being chair of the unpopular Democratic Party. Tehan emerged “as a man of character.... When he made mistakes, he admitted them.”

END OF TAPE 29, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

MORE ON GREENE-TEHAN FIGHT (William and John)
Scope and Content Note: Basically a struggle for power in the party. Tehan was popular and Greene “kind of rode along on his popularity and was sort of using Tehan more than Tehan realized until somewhere along the way they clashed and Tehan emerged as the one who should run the show.”

THE ORIGINAL DOC OFFICERS (John and William)

EARLY DOC FINANCES (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Poorly financed. All volunteer. Clifford and Hoan spent their own money on the DOC. Hoan was pretty well off by this time. First convention had a press room with an open bar. Paul Burke of Green Bay, an engineer, was generous to the party. A few bankers active in the party. John was John Reynolds' campaign manager for the 1950 congressional race, and “we just didn't have much money at all.”

1948 CAMPAIGN (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Thompson drove around in a truck and “he'd speak to any group that would have him.” “Pretty disorganized.”

1950 CAMPAIGN (William)
Scope and Content Note: The Korean War and a major Chinese victory at a crucial time greatly hurt the Democrats. “It was a very, very, very unpopular position that Truman had at that time. That's why I guess I never could understand how we could get back into Vietnam after we finally wormed our way out of that (Korea).”

1949-1951 DEMOCRATS IN THE LEGISLATURE (William)
Scope and Content Note: Barely enough Democrats to get a roll call. Worked to a degree with former Progressives who were in the legislature now as Republicans. William introduced a bill for a consumers council to represent the public at hearings before commissions and the like. “Almost without exception” the old progressives supported that measure. Democrats in the legislature really did not have a program of their own at the time; to do so would have been “absurd.”

PARTY LINE VOTING MUCH MORE PREVALENT IN THE EARLY 1950s (William)
Scope and Content Note: William defeated for re-election, with the Korean War as an issue which brought many Democrats down. In 1952 Eisenhower “knocked out” Democratic county officeholders.

DEMOCRATS CONTROL BROWN COUNTY NOW AFTER A REPUBLICAN HIATUS INFLUENCED BY JOE MCCARTHY (William and John)

LITTLE OPPOSITION AMONGST OLD-LINE DEMOCRATS TO THE DOC (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Jerry Fox smoothed over what differences there were. Old Democrats wanted to win again. There were some county chairmen who “felt abused when this organization kind of got build up around them.”

ELIZABETH HAWKES (William)
Scope and Content Note: “Nobody paid much attention to her.”

BLACK REPRESENTATION IN THE PARTY IN MILWAUKEE CAME FAIRLY EARLY (John and William)

ANECDOTE ABOUT A VISIT TO PAUL DOUGLAS IN CHICAGO (William and John)
Scope and Content Note: John and William were county and district chairs; Pat Lucey was along; John Reynolds had been the congressional candidate and was the head of the Office of Price Administration in Green Bay. “When we showed up in Chicago where they had all these mature, old-time politicians running the show, I think they got the biggest kick out of all the titles on such youngsters.”

ISSUES WERE UNIMPORTANT WHEN DOC WAS FIRST FORMED (John and William)

PRE-PRIMARY ENDORSEMENTS (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Brown County people showed little sentiment for endorsement. John and William often had two friends running for the same statewide office.

END OF TAPE 30, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

MORE ON PRE-PRIMARY ENDORSEMENT (William and John)
Scope and Content Note: Never had “a ghost of a chance” at the first convention.

JERRY CLIFFORD (William and John)
Scope and Content Note: Had a lot to do with selection of Green Bay for first DOC convention.

SMALL TALK

SELECTION OF NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN AND NATIONAL COMMITTEEWOMAN (William and John)
Scope and Content Note: Do not recall how that was done at first. Eventually done by election at the annual convention.

IMPORTANCE OF FARM AND LABOR GROUPS (William and John)
Scope and Content Note: Labor “always considered a strong ally.” Miles Singler, a farmer, ran for Congress in the eighth district. Farmers Union was Democrat and Farm Bureau was Republican. Several Farmers Union leaders were party activists. Building trades were not very politically active and the State AFL-CIO, under George Haberman, was not very active. George Hall (State AFL-CIO secretary-treasurer) “was always an outspoken Democrat. But then, when Johnny Schmitt got in, there was no question about where the labor groups stood and it was a very significant part of the support of the Democrats.” Labor would contribute money even in districts where it had few members. Haberman never had much control over labor's political action committees. “I'm sure he was a Republican; there's not much question about that. But his influence was very minimal, I would say.” In Green Bay area, the paper mill unions, as such, were not very active; but leaders of these unions were active in the party. As time went on, union political action committees became more common and they were “Democratic.” Ran phone banks from the labor temple for a number of years.

RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LEGISLATORS AND THE PARTY (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: The caucuses had a certain amount of discipline. “Of course, when we got the governor, that's when you had a real party organization .... Before that I suspect party discipline was pretty lax.”

MAINTENANCE OF ENTHUSIASM, 1948-1958 (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Enthusiasm was kept up. Conventions were always spirited. Everyone seemed convinced the breakthrough would eventually come. “Those were rough years, I'll admit that.” The leadership was very young, as compared to today. A dedicated group.

RAPID GROWTH OF DEMOCRATIC PARTY FROM ALMOST NOTHING TO A GENUINE CONTENDER (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Tradition of voting for Franklin Roosevelt on the national level helped considerably.

HENRY REUSS (William)
Scope and Content Note: A man of strong convictions. Became a powerful leader in Congress. Wisconsin Democrats were fortunate to have so many dedicated and competent people.

GAYLORD NELSON (William)
Scope and Content Note: Instinctively had strong feelings about consumerism before it was a big issue nationally.

HORACE WILKIE (William)
Scope and Content Note: A great humanist.

CALIBER OF YOUNG WISCONSIN DEMOCRATS WAS SUCH THEY PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN LEADERS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES (William)
Scope and Content Note: Because of the leadership vacuum in the Democratic Party, they got an early start. Responsible and loyal to the party.

END OF TAPE 30, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

THE SALES TAX ISSUE (William)
Scope and Content Note: There were differences on this issue, “but nothing so bitter that it caused any real friction.” Doubt if Gaylord Nelson lost much support because of it.

PARTY SPLITS (William)
Scope and Content Note: Sometimes based on personalities, “but not too many real bitter ones among the original Democrats that I can recall.”

1950 DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL PRIMARY (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: (Note: The interviewer's initial question was misstated, confusing the 1950 primary and the 1952 primary. This distorts the answer somewhat by incorrectly identifying Joe McCarthy as the Republican opponent.) Four candidates. William was in the same law firm as Laverne Dilweg, one of the candidates, but does not recall giving any speeches. John recalls supporting Tom Fairchild.

JOE McCARTHY AND THE McCARTHY ERA (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: “A good deal of soul-searching by everybody.” McCarthy opposed by many Republicans. “McCarthy was a very unusual man, a very strange individual.... As circuit court judge, he would occasionally come to Green Bay. No one thought him unusual then; but then, you know, it wasn't long before he was doing strange things.... It left a strange feeling that you don't forget; that whole McCarthy era was odd.” When the McCarthy issue came up at social gatherings, the mood would turn ugly. As a judge, McCarthy had been pretty likeable.

McCARTHYISM “WAS JUST RAMPANT” IN GREEN BAY (John and,William)
Scope and Content Note: Green Bay was eighty-five percent Catholic in 1952. McCarthy's crusade against Communists was well received in Green Bay. “That's why we lost the whole Democratic population in the courthouse that one year.”

EIGHTH CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT VERY DIFFICULT FOR DEMOCRATS (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Victory possible for a Democrat only if the candidate has greater pulling power than merely being a Democrat. The district has many strong Republican areas, particularly Appleton. Strangely, Appleton had once been a Socialist stronghold.

DEFEAT OF JOHN REYNOLDS IN 1964 (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: As governor, he had had to raise taxes in a couple unpopular ways. Warren Knowles was a popular candidate. Some voters were unhappy with Reynold's generosity to the University.

JOHN'S SUPPORT OF EUGENE McCARTHY IN 1968 (John)
Scope and Content Note: Chairman of Brown County committee for McCarthy. Lots of support from young people. John's support was strictly on the peace issue. Had been a great supporter of Hubert Humphrey in the early days of the DOC. “I liked Humphrey. I figured he got caught up in Johnson's web on the war issue.” Was with McCarthy the day that Ted Kennedy came to Green Bay and told him Bobby Kennedy was going to run for president. “And he was pretty mad at Bobby that day.”

1968 DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION IN CHICAGO
Scope and Content Note: “The whole thing was just completely overplayed by the Chicago Police Department. Daley, I think, reacted much more severely than he had to. I think he was out to prove something and I don't think it would've got completely out of hand if they hadn't misused their judgement, such as beating all the kids.” Even on the convention floor, things were different from previous conventions--pushing, ordered to stay seated, etc.

HERMAN JESSEN (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Not the best liked person in the world, but friendly once you got to know him. Liked controversy. Colorful in his speech. Anecdote about his explaining his diarrhea to everyone at a meeting.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE PROBABLY WAITING “FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO DEVELOP, ALTHOUGH IT TAKES A WHILE FOR PEOPLE TO CHANGE NAMES POLITICALLY.” (William)
Scope and Content Note: Joke about the Irish being Democrats.

DAN HOAN (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: “He just loved politics.” An idealist. Knew how to fight. “Viewed government as an instrumentality that should be working in a positive way for people.”

GOVERNMENT NEVER PLAYED A NEUTRAL ROLE; “IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF WHICH WAY IT'S TUNED” (William)
Scope and Content Note: So-called laissez-faire government of the 1920s had the highest protective tariff in history and “we had a policy of shifting the loss of personal injury to the consumer and to the employee rather than to spread the loss over many people.”

END OF TAPE 31, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

MORE ON DAN HOAN (William)
Scope and Content Note: He always wanted to be in the middle of the action. Well respected and well liked.

ELLIOT WALSTEAD (John)
Scope and Content Note: “A real straightforward guy.” Honest; good sense of humor.

FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT (William)
Scope and Content Note: A great educator of Democrats. Had a great concern for blacks, the poor, etc. Had to do battle with his own class. Bitterness against Roosevelt was very deep with some people.

PAT LUCEY-PHILLEO NASH COMPETITION FOR CHAIRMANSHIP OF THE PARTY (John)
Scope and Content Note: A “pretty spirited contest.” Pat felt Phileo was not doing enough organizing. Part of it was carryover from the previous convention when Nash beat Horace Wilkie by a narrow margin. “And Pat wanted to be chairman too.”

PHILLEO NASH (William)
Scope and Content Note: Interesting; had lots of stories about playing poker with Harry Truman.

MORE ON LUCEY-NASH COMPETITION FOR THE CHAIRMANSHIP (John)
Scope and Content Note: “A legitimate exercise in ambition.” Not philosophical.

OTHER SPIRITED CONTESTS WITHIN THE PARTY (John and William)

CURRENT PARTY ACTIVITY BY THE DUFFY BROTHERS (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: John goes to an occasional meeting, but is not active. “It's very time-consuming.” William is currently a judge and therefore inactive in politics.

HOW WELL THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF WISCONSIN TODAY FULFILLS THE PROMISE OF 1948 (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Times change; problems change. Things like the Homestead Exemption on taxes are important, though not well-publicized. Democrats on regulatory commissions are a positive thing. Tony Earl “has done a terrific job as governor.” Smart; knows government; steps on toes when necessary. Lucey “was a great innovator.” Good at seeing his legislation through the legislature. By putting forward good candidates, the Democrats have had a positive effect on the Republicans. Environmental protection is a good example. Cleaner water today. State is well run.

JOHN BROGAN (William)
Scope and Content Note: Very active local Democrat. Has served on the DNR. Active in Gaylord Nelson's campaign and Earl's campaign.

JIM DILLON (William)
Scope and Content Note: Became a federal marshall during the Kennedy administration.

JACK GRADY (William)
Scope and Content Note: Colorful.

OTHER GREEN BAY AREA PARTY ACTIVISTS (William)

THE HIGH CALIBER OF EARLY DOC ACTIVITSTS (John)

THE RARITY OF HOW THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DEVELOPED IN WISCONSIN (John and William)
Scope and Content Note: Basically a new party. The general compatibility of the principal characters.

END OF INTERVIEW