Subseries: Carl Thompson, 1985 January 8
Note

• Access online.
• Also on Audio 1030A/26-28.

INTRODUCTION

ORGANIZING LOCAL DOC UNITS, 1948-1950
Scope and Content Note: Communicated with former Progressives and longtime Democrats informing them of the time and place of the local meeting. After the meeting, would work on those who did not come to the first meeting. “We learned as we went along.”

COMPARISON OF 1950 AND 1948 GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGNS
Scope and Content Note: The 1948 campaign was run out of the state DOC office. Had less than $10,000 for all campaigns, including the governor's election. In 1950, spent over $30,000, but this still was not enough to do the basic work of informing the voters about the candidates. “Nobody votes for nobody.” In 1948, had only one brochure. Main method of reaching the voters was through press releases. Someone loaned the campaign a vehicle in each campaign. In 1950, had a flat-bed truck which was used as a speaking platform. “In both campaigns, I was influenced by the campaign techniques used by Phil and Bob La Follette.” Campaigns used the Progressive Party “Black Book” to send post cards to people prior to Thompson stopping to make a speech.

ANECDOTE ABOUT MAKING FIVE SPEECHES IN A PARTICULAR COUNTY DURING THE 1948 CAMPAIGN WHERE NOT ONE LOCAL DEMOCRATIC OFFICIAL SHOWED UP

PROMOTING LOCAL CANDIDACIES
Scope and Content Note: Lester Johnson told Thompson that in 1948 Jackson County had a full slate of local Democratic candidates, but they spent all their energy on the Thompson campaign for governor. In 1950 they resolved not to do that and were very successful locally.

THOMPSON MADE A COPY OF THE PROGRESSIVE'S “BLACK BOOK”

1950 DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL PRIMARY
Scope and Content Note: Milwaukee Journal issued several uncomplimentary editorials on Senator Alexander Wiley, suggesting that he was a “buffoon.” Democrats thought Wiley was vulnerable; hence, the great interest (four candidates) in the Democratic Primary. William Sanderson ran because of strong support from the farm co-op movement. Tom Fairchild knew a lot of people and was considered a strong candidate. Not sure why La Vern Dilweg ran.

SEVERAL FORMERLY HEAVILY DEMOCRATIC COUNTIES ARE NO LONGER STRONGLY DEMOCRATIC
Scope and Content Note: Dodge County and Brown County are two good examples.

MORE ON 1950 DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL PRIMARY
Scope and Content Note: Dan Hoan probably ran because he thought his name was well enough known to get the nomination. Thompson publically supported no one, but probably voted for Fairchild.

DOC FINANCES IN THE EARLY GOING
Scope and Content Note: A large number of small contributors. Got one contribution of $500 in the 1948 campaign, “and that was almost unheard of.” The party made an effort to get contributions from postmasters and rural mailcarriers and those who had received high appointments from the national administration. However, the latter in general forgot who was responsible for their appointments. “I'm sure that in other states, people would get an average of ten times as much from these people as it worked out in Wisconsin.” Elected officials did not donate to the party; saved their contributions for their own campaigns. Very little money from labor sources in 1948, but the CIO contributed a good deal of money in 1950.

THE CATLIN ACT
Scope and Content Note: Thompson does not recall if it had much effect on labor's political contributions. However, the all night filibuster in the state senate, led by Henry Maier, against the Catlin Act made the labor people around the state feel that “we were the ones that were helping along this line.”

RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE MILWAUKEE COUNTY DOC AND THE STATE DOC
Scope and Content Note: Milwaukee pretty much had a county DOC prior to the establishment of the state DOC. It was important to people in Milwaukee to get jobs as precinct workers on election day and the ward organizations made the decisions as to who would get these jobs. This was one reason why Milwaukee had a county organization so early.

CAMPAIGNING AMONGST LABOR UNIONS
Scope and Content Note: As a candidate for governor, he would speak to five or six labor union meetings in one evening in Milwaukee. They would simply recess whatever they were doing whenever he arrived.

TENSION BETWEEN THE MILWAUKEE DOC AND THE STATE DOC
Scope and Content Note: Milwaukee people felt support of their county headquarters was sufficient.

THOMPSON'S DECISION TO RUN FOR THE ASSEMBLY IN 1952
Scope and Content Note: Had started his career backwards by running for Congress and governor first.

END OF TAPE 34, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

MORE ON THOMPSON'S 1952 ASSEMBLY RACE
Scope and Content Note: Was a little tired of running and losing. Proxmire vacated assembly seat to run for governor. Serious health problems in the early 1950s also convinced Thompson not to launch a statewide campaign. Health problems aggravated, if not caused, by his statewide campaigns where he gave about ten speeches a day and was always frustrated by being late for the next scheduled speech.

WHY HE GAVE UP NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN POST IN 1956
Scope and Content Note: There were many people in the party who were interested in the position and many who felt Thompson had been in the position long enough.

FACTIONALISM IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF WISCONSIN
Scope and Content Note: Part of it was the general feeling Wisconsinites outside Milwaukee have about the big city in the state. Does not recall any great contests for political appointments. Chicago Democrats insisted on all appointments to regional office on Korean War price controls since the office was located in Chicago.

1952 U.S. SENATE RACE
Scope and Content Note: Party made every effort to indicate that its opposition to McCarthy was to him as an individual. Tom Fairchild _a good alternative to McCarthy; many would have supported him no matter what ticket he ran on. “The best organizer the Democratic Party had during that period was Joe McCarthy.” Fairchild was a big draw at county meetings.

“JOE MUST GO” MOVEMENT
Scope and Content Note: Does not remember details, but does recall meetings where it was discussed.

PROXMIRE'S REPUDIATION OF ROBERT LA FOLLETTE SUCHER AS DEMOCRATIC ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE
Scope and Content Note: Does not remember the reasons.

HOW THOMPSON MET HIS WIFE
Scope and Content Note: Farmer-Labor-Progressive Federation meeting. Did not realize he was supposed to be her date; did not buy her lunch; she had to borrow money from the people they were riding with.

ROLE OF FARM AND LABOR ORGANIZATIONS IN THE PROGRESSIVE PARTY
Scope and Content Note: Debate at the founding convention whether the words “farm” and “labor” should appear in the title of the new party. Phil La Follette felt to do so would hinder vote getting amongst non-union workers and amongst non-Farmers Union and non-co-op people.

SALES TAX
Scope and Content Note: John Reynolds' opposition to the sales tax. “A real tough issue.” State was faced with serious revenue shortages and Nelson just “bit the bullet.”

1963 REAPPORTIONMENT
Scope and Content Note: Apparently decided there was no way to save Lester Johnson's congressional seat. Also, the Republicans may have insisted on this particular reapportionment plan or none.

MAINTAINING THE ENTHUSIASM, 1948-1958
Scope and Content Note: “I think all along people felt that 'we're going to do it some day.'” The Truman victory of 1948 sparked a lot of interest in the Democratic Party in Wisconsin. Eisenhower's victory in 1952 was an Eisenhower victory, not a Republican victory.

END OF TAPE 34, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

FACTORS LEADING TO EVENTUAL SUCCESS OF DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN WISCONSIN IN 1958
Scope and Content Note: Gaylord Nelson defeated Vernon Thomson for governor in 1958. Carl used to speak at state Democratic conventions and say “that sanctimonious hypocrite from Richland Center, Vernon Thomson.” A lot of people who were not necessarily Democrats did not like Vernon Thomson. Also, Nelson had travelled the state. Nelson used an oratorical, preacher style when giving speeches at that time. Carl used the same style at the time. Both have switched to a more conversational style since then.

DECISION TO RUN FOR STATE SENATE IN 1959
Scope and Content Note: Special election to fill the seat vacated by Nelson when he became governor. Thompson's chances were good. Member of the state senate has an easier time getting “his way known” because he has only 32 colleagues, rather than the 99 colleagues in the assembly.

RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE LEGISLATORS AND THE PARTY
Scope and Content Note: Many legislators felt they had to vote certain ways because of conditions in their districts, no matter what the party platform said. Many also felt that the Administrative Committee had little concern for legislators, that it was more concerned about passing a platform than electing people to office. Also, there were not many occasions when the legislators could get together with the party leaders. In Dane County, however, legislators attended nearly every party meeting. The party had a roll call published one year, which made some legislators livid. Dane County had a rotating position reserved for a legislator on the executive committee of the county party organization. Democrats elected in normally Republican districts--Lary Swoboda, for instance--do so because they are reaching Republican voters.

DIFFICULTY FOR POLITICIANS TO GET STORIES INTO THE NEWSPAPERS TODAY
Scope and Content Note: A great change from times past. When he ran for governor and later the legislature, the Madison newspapers would publish almost every press release he turned out. “Now, why, gee, you almost got to get up on top of the Capitol and jump off.” Situation is even more difficult outside Madison and Milwaukee. Carl's brother-in-law used to publish the weekly newspaper in Darlington. Once told Carl if he jumped off the top of the Capitol the only reason it would get into the Darlington paper “is that your sister lives in Darlington.”

DEMOCRATS HAVE ALWAYS ACCEPTED MOST ANYONE INTO THEIR RANKS
Scope and Content Note: In the early days of the DOC, the party members thought they should have “a greater voice in how the legislator is going to act.” Great philosophical differences in the state senate. Warren Braun was probably the most liberal member of the senate before running for Congress; liberal on everything, except abortion. Won elections by overwhelming margins, just as his conservative predecessor did.

CAMPAIGNING
Scope and Content Note: “Many people who are active in political campaigns in the legislature feel that the number of people who you have met, said 'hello' to, or knocked on their door, whatever, is a very much greater factor than how you vote and so forth.” Many people feel Gaylord Nelson lost his senate seat “because he didn't come back often enough and didn't attend some of these functions. And of course, Bill Proxmire, nothing gets by him, including anybody going into a football game in Madison or Green Bay or Milwaukee.” Although, there are some Republicans who vote for Proxmire because of his conservative image.

GOVERNOR MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE SETS THE PARTY'S LEGISLATIVE POLICY
Scope and Content Note: Some legislators, however, will introduce a bill and make a big thing of it. After a time, it will find its way into the party platform or become a party resolution. Would not be that easy, however, for a governor to ignore the party's platform on a particular issue. Phil La Follette determined policy more than modern day governors. La Follette would meet with Progressive legislators at lunch- Rennebohm sandwiches--shortly before a vote on a bill so that they would not be waylaid by lobbyists before the vote.

THOMPSON NEVER HELD A LEADERSHIP POSITION IN THE LEGISLATURE
Scope and Content Note: Was more or less offered any leadership role he wanted shortly after the Democrats first won a majority in the state senate (1974). He asked to be on the Committee on Committees and “the chairmanship of a committee that I pick the subjects from.” Specifically turned down the position of majority leader, in favor of a more conservative senator, on the assumption that the more conservative senator would have a better chance of swaying people on marginal votes. The only problem with being on the Committee on Committees was he had to listen to the assignments everyone else wanted and would frequently give up assignments he wanted, especially the Education Committee.

PROUD OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS FROM HIS ROLE ON THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE
Scope and Content Note: Governor now agrees with him on using school aids as an instrument of property tax relief.

ACHIEVEMENTS IN THE AREA OF EDUCATION
Scope and Content Note: Service on the Doyle Committee which studied problems of schools. He was instrumental in having the committee recommend going from thirty percent to forty percent state support of local school districts. Persuaded Governor Lucey to support this concept. Appears that the current governor is pushing for forty-five percent. Twofold good comes from this: 1) holds down property taxes; 2) permits school districts to adopt a better education program.

ABORTION
Scope and Content Note: Feels he was able to prevent passage of an anti-abortion amendment to the constitution. Showed his colleagues that their own polls indicated the people in their districts felt abortion to be a matter of a woman's individual conscience. “Let Carl handle it”--take the heat.

END OF TAPE 35, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

VETERANS HOUSING
Scope and Content Note: Thompson was leader of a group of three people who put together a proposition which was accepted by both Governor Lucey and Secretary of Veterans Affairs John Moses. As a consequence, many veterans were able to purchase homes who otherwise would not have been able to do so.

ATTEMPTS TO ABOLISH PAROLE AND TO IMPOSE UNIFORM SENTENCING
Scope and Content Note: He was successful in stopping these efforts. One of the problems with parole is that there are two kinds of parole: 1) those released on a discretionary basis, who are running eighty to ninety percent non-return to prison; 2) those released early automatically, simply by putting in good behavior time, who have a much higher recidivism. Thompson also opposed determinant sentencing. Favors consistent sentences; sentences should not depend on who the judge is.

PROPERTY TAXES
Scope and Content Note: Thompson would have liked to have brought state aid to school districts up to sixty percent.

DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS BEEN A GOOD ALTERNATIVE TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN WISCONSIN
Scope and Content Note: Existence of two parties leads to consideration of all important issues.

COST OF MEDICAL CARE WILL HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED LEGISLATIVELY IN THE NOT. TOO DISTANT FUTURE.
Scope and Content Note: Particularly for the elderly, who are the most expensive people on medicaid.

CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTION ISSUES
Scope and Content Note: Need for educational and work programs.

CONCLUDING REMARKS ON THE DOC
Scope and Content Note: One of the main reasons for its success was the belief by activists in a “club system.” Amazing that the leaders of the Democratic Party and the old Progressive Party were successfully brought together, when as late as 1938 the Democrats had formed an electoral coalition with the Republicans to defeat the Progressives. Brought in nearly all Progressives who were not officeholders or strong isolationists. Dan Hoan's gubernatorial candidacies were important in bringing Socialists in. “The great effort we made to support farm programs and solicit farm membership, I think, was fruitful.” Joe McCarthy drove many into the Democratic Party; Tom Fairchild, as McCarthy's opponent, brought many moderates into the party.

END OF INTERVIEW