INTRODUCTION

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH
Scope and Content Note: Born in Millston, Wisconsin, on farm. Father killed by threshing machine. Went to Sparta, then to La Crosse for work. First job as hired hand on farm at age fourteen.

FIRST FACTORY JOB AT FIORE TOBACCO COMPANY IN LA CROSSE
Scope and Content Note: Worked way up from stemmer and stripper to supervisor in smoking department.

MOVES TO WORK AT MOTOR METER GAUGE FOR BETTER WAGES AND THEN TO CHICAGO FOR TRAINING
Scope and Content Note: Began at 23 cents per hour. Worked his way up to foreman. When company sold, decided against continuing factory work. Liked drawing as a child so moved to Chicago to study interior decorating. Studied this at art school for four years. Worked at Sears, Roebuck and Company mail order house to put himself through school.

RETURNS TO LA CROSSE AS CONTRACTOR AND IS APPROACHED BY UNION
Scope and Content Note: Importance of craft skills at time. Approached by union to join. Organizer “tough” and outspoken. Hall had dispute with him because “my middle name was fight and talk afterwards.” Negotiated with the International Brotherhood of Painters, Decorators and Paperhangers of America (IBPDP). Agreed to work with another contractor as journeyman though in fact they were partner-contractors.

JOINS PAINTERS UNION IN 1927; SHOWS LEADERSHIP
Scope and Content Note: Was 23 years old. Herman Burkhardt influential in convincing him to join union. Union investigating committee not as knowledgeable as Hall about the trade. Outspoken at meetings; friends used to pull him down by the shirttails at meetings to quiet him. Elected delegate to the La Crosse Central Labor Council.

LA CROSSE ACTIVITIES; UNION ORGANIZING
Scope and Content Note: Foreman of Works Progress Administration (WPA) project for painting school and public buildings. Active in La Crosse central body. Took Burkhardt's place representing labor in La Crosse; did so for 16 years. Extensive organizing of police, sheriff's department, telephone employees, and so on.

EFFORTS TO ORGANIZE BANK EMPLOYEES
Scope and Content Note: Had gotten okay from Harry Green to organize them. Had collected dues but was told to return them. Overall, La Crosse a well-organized place; wage scale almost on a par with that of Milwaukee.

HALL ACTIVE IN COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS
Scope and Content Note: Included Boy Scouts and Chamber of Commerce. Helped to organize celebrations; loved to work. On payroll of central body; also worked for La Crosse Building Trades Council. Managed Labor Temple, arranged for meetings, published Labor Day booklet annually which contained articles and advertisements.

OWNS SET OF WISCONSIN STATE FEDERATION OF LABOR (WSFL) CONVENTION PROCEEDINGS
Scope and Content Note: Delegate to WSFL conventions. Elected to Executive Board [in 1939]. Re-calls holding of conventions in state's “smaller towns.”

RECALLS HENRY OHL
Scope and Content Note: Thought highly of him as a dedicated labor leader.

REASONS HALL ELECTED SO EASILY
Scope and Content Note: “Likeable” person; dedicated to union workers. Very careful with money; called “penny pincher.”

WHILE IN LA CROSSE, DOES ALL TYPES OF UNION TASKS
Scope and Content Note: Negotiated, wrote contracts, applied for charters.

ATTITUDE TOWARD STRIKES
Scope and Content Note: Didn't believe in them. Few strikes in La Crosse when he was there. Recalls getting Teamsters to take cut in pay to save wholesale grocery business. Knew many attorneys and judges; wanted to learn conditions of business before negotiating. Had ability to analyze people. Began lobbying while still in La Crosse.

WORK AS BREWER DURING PAINTERS' OFF-SEASON
Scope and Content Note: Brewery workers a happy work force; however, would get mad at union meetings which tended to be very interesting.

DIFFICULT GROUPS TO ORGANIZE
Scope and Content Note: State, county, and municipal workers difficult to organize because of much pressure on political appointees. Also problems organizing law enforcement officers because of individual, rather than cooperative, attitudes of many.

ORGANIZING WOMEN
Scope and Content Note: Organized many women's groups, including garment workers, teachers, communication workers. No women organizers or leaders, but many complaints about wage inequities. Overall, women not well organized. Talented women “not permitted to progress.”

HALL GETS CALL FROM MILWAUKEE TO RUN FOR SECRETARY-TREASURER OF WSFL AFTER WILLIAM NAGORSNE DIES
Scope and Content Note: Hard decision because of solid progress Hall and labor had made in La Crosse, but moved to Milwaukee.

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

ELECTION TO WSFL EXECUTIVE BOARD AS SECRETARY-TREASURER
Scope and Content Note: George Haberman, Frank Ranney, and Jake Friedrick called Hall to ask him to be Secretary-Treasurer. Others, like Emmett Terry, Green Bay Teamster, also wanted the job.

POOR WSFL HEALTH AND WELFARE BENEFITS FOR OFFICERS
Scope and Content Note: No sick benefits or burial insurance on officers; Hall helped to set up health and welfare plan. Increased income of WSFL by getting new affiliates. Fieldmen available to local unions on request.

BEING BUILDING TRADES PERSON HELPS HALL'S ELECTION TO WSFL EXECUTIVE BOARD

LOBBYING TASKS
Scope and Content Note: Responsible for WSFL lobbying; began to be called the “people's lobby.” Lived in Loraine Hotel in Madison. Milwaukee office on 3rd Street, in rented fire trap which burned twice.

WORKING WITH GEORGE HABERMAN
Scope and Content Note: Needed to be a fighter to work with him; “had to meet him toe to toe, and I did.” Describes convention chores under Haberman, a good parliamentarian who ran a tight convention.

EXECUTIVE BOARD'S RELATIONSHIP WITH HABERMAN
Scope and Content Note: Not a rubber stamp; formerly composed of rank-and-file members who would express opinions candidly. Orla Coleman, Madison ironworker, very good. Elections contested years ago as opposed to today. Motivation for being on Board included some for personal gain; many elected by rank and file. Majority of disputes between Board and Haberman stemmed from merger; Haberman's near-retirement spurred issue of pensions in later years.

REASONS FOR HABERMAN'S POPULARITY
Scope and Content Note: Physical size an asset; spoke loudly. “Got around with his people.” Respected his decisiveness, good humor and knowledge of parliamentary procedure. Later years brought more competition for officer's job because of good salary.

LEGISLATIVE WORK
Scope and Content Note: Major concerns included unemployment compensation, “right-to-work” bills, public employee legislation. Presented a plaque of a Senate and Assembly resolution praising his work as lobbyist. Maintained a non-partisan philosophy; didn't believe in party politics. Successful because of understanding of legislator's need and duty to please constituents.

WELL LIKED IN LEGISLATURE
Scope and Content Note: Lived with anti-union as well as union legislators. Recalls no real enemies in the legislature.

ANECDOTE ABOUT AN ASSEMBLYMAN'S PET BILL
Scope and Content Note: Resulted in verbal, then physical exchange; only time Hall got angry.

CATLIN BILL
Scope and Content Note: Religious groups as well as labor united in opposition to a bill that only Catlin “would have nerve enough” to draft.

GOOD RELATIONS WITH LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

HALL'S COMMUNITY ACTIVITIES
Scope and Content Note: Court Reorganization Committee. Active in conservation; helped to set up conservation committee of Wisconsin State AFL-CIO. Issues included hunting and fishing rights; clean air and water.

STATE UNIVERSITY MERGER COMMITTEE
Scope and Content Note: Involved in state university reorganization committee. Doubts merger results in savings projected by Governor Patrick Lucey.

COMMENTS ON OTHER WISCONSIN GOVERNORS
Scope and Content Note: Julius Heil, Vernon Thomson, Walter Kohler, Jr.

LABOR'S POLITICAL PARTY TIES
Scope and Content Note: Emphasizes that labor historically not exclusively pro-Democrat.

LABOR AS AN OPPONENT OF SENATOR JOSEPH R. McCARTHY

POLITICS AND ORGANIZED LABOR
Scope and Content Note: Labor leadership's control of members' votes tenuous. Personal life will have more influence on votes than union “line” on how members should vote. Even more true today than earlier that labor not a led group; more analytical today. Union leadership must understand and represent rank and file. Some join unions in quest of good salaries or to depend on others to argue in their behalf; others dedicated to the union. Worries about dedication of today's younger members, especially in factories.

OPPOSES USE OF CREDIT CARDS

WORKERS' PRIDE IN THEIR WORK
Scope and Content Note: Much pride years ago; today production is all important. “Money is the sin of the world.” Teachers used to teach because they loved children; nurses used to work “for nothing.” Hall helped organize teachers who loved their work but whose salaries remained low.

DEVELOPMENT AND GROWTH OF THE CONGRESS OF INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATIONS (CIO)
Scope and Content Note: Occurred because the American Federation of Labor (AFL) too confined; didn't organize broadly enough. Hall knew many CIO leaders; never had an enemy among them. Relations between CIO and AFL at local level more friendly than nationally.

HAROLD CHRISTOFFEL AND ASSOCIATES IN THE WISCONSIN STATE INDUSTRIAL UNION COUNCIL (STATE IUC)
Scope and Content Note: Christoffel a powerful and effective organizer but “on wrong side of track.” His problem was his philosophy and beliefs as a “communist.” Hall equates communism with hate; fears communist influence on educational system. Expounds “love it or leave it” philosophy about U.S. government, or about a boss.

RADICALS' WILLINGNESS TO STRIKE
Scope and Content Note: Recalls La Crosse rubber mills situation while he was organizer there. After Hall found that men who called for strike had at least other part-time jobs, motion to strike “was killed just like that.” Today's young workers fail to realize everyone in the community loses during a strike.

END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

MORE ON HAROLD CHRISTOFFEL
Scope and Content Note: Effective speaker. Good at “misleading people.” Had good organization behind him. “Nice guy” socially; honestly devoted to working people. “Smart operator”; developed followers because he was able to challenge management successfully.

MERGER OF AFL AND CIO
Scope and Content Note: CIO wanted control, but organization's financial condition was poor; bills had to be picked up by AFL. WSFL unions had worked well with CIO even before merger.

CIO LOBBYISTS BEFORE MERGER
Scope and Content Note: Doesn't recall their names. Often cooperated on bills.

MORE ON MERGER IN WISCONSIN
Scope and Content Note: Big argument over merger was how to keep officers of both organizations employed. Has some records about merger.

LA CROSSE TRADES AND LABOR COUNCIL SLOW TO MERGE
Scope and Content Note: Such strong CIO locals as rubber workers and brewery workers wanted to dictate terms of merger.

JOHN SCHMITT
Scope and Content Note: Hall, while gathering financial records in preparation for merger, insulted by Schmitt. Example of Schmitt's outspokenness as a source of trouble; ironically, Schmitt's mouth a source of his power also.

COMMENTS ON HABERMAN
Scope and Content Note: Disagreed with Haberman over representation. Recalls bar incident with Haberman and Aldric Revell.

LOBBYISTS SHOULD AVOID COMMITTEE ON POLITICAL EDUCATION (COPE) INVOLVEMENT
Scope and Content Note: Interferes with neutrality a lobbyist must keep. Hall as neutral lobbyist got most of what he wanted from legislature.

DIGRESSION OF CURRENT POLITICAL PROBLEMS AND PROGRAMS
Scope and Content Note: Reflects on rising wages and pensions for leaders and doctors; President Reagan's policies. Many people receiving social security who shouldn't be.

LABOR'S LOBBYISTS HAVE LOST NON-PARTISAN OUTLOOK AND SENSE OF BILLS EXPRESSLY RELATED TO LABOR
Scope and Content Note: Involved in bills on abortion, divorce, and so on, which should not be labor's concern.

END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

FEDERAL UNIONS IN WISCONSIN
Scope and Content Note: Gives reasons for formation and definition of federal unions. Had benefits of independence and efficiency. Internationals attempted to raid after merger. More federal unions in Wisconsin because neither AFL nor CIO did proper job of organizing.

ORGANIZER FROM PAINTERS' UNION (IBPDP) DESTROYS HALL'S FAITH IN ORGANIZERS FROM INTERNATIONALS
Scope and Content Note: Recalls international representative who was highly educated and well dressed sent in to investigate mishandling of funds.

ORGANIZING WORKERS
Scope and Content Note: Need to get right person for job. Allis-Chalmers' machinists union raided by CIO and eventually won over. International sent “railroad man” to hold machinists union; proved to be wholly inadequate. Finally, international sent in machinist Gil Brenner, who was very good. Local finally lost to CIO, but many members continued to meet secretly for two years and pay dues as a machinists local. Switch to CIO necessary to consolidate union's negotiating power.

RAIDING HARMFUL TO BOTH AFL AND CIO
Scope and Content Note: Cites unscrupulous practices of organizers.

FRANK WEBER WAS BEST ORGANIZER IN WISCONSIN
Scope and Content Note: “Lived the part, never overdressed.” Never put himself above a worker.

HALL'S OPENNESS TO PEOPLE
Scope and Content Note: Alcoholics in La Crosse often visited his office, which was open to everyone, although once forced to throw out a “commie.” Hated to see lonely people; also worked with handicapped and non-English speakers.

HALL LEARNS TO GARDEN AND CAN DURING DEPRESSION

OLD WSFL ORGANIZERS CONTRASTED WITH LATER LEADERS
Scope and Content Note: Old-time leaders closer to rank and file; Charlie Heymanns and Jake Friedrick always close to people. Henry Ohl and Jack Handley soft-spoken and intelligent. Haberman more independent. Today's young organizers don't have “a certain touch.”

HABERMAN DURING LATER YEARS DOESN'T MINGLE

WISCONSIN STATE FEDERATION DOES MORE FOR RANK AND FILE THAN FEDERATIONS IN MOST OTHER STATES
Scope and Content Note: Services in Wisconsin included time study and job evaluation; leaders in unemployment compensation and vocational and adult education.

MANY WISCONSIN LEADERS BECOME INTERNATIONAL OFFICERS
Scope and Content Note: Including Arnold Zander, Peter Schoemann, Walter Burke.

HALL'S LABOR HEROES
Scope and Content Note: Include Schoemann, Weber, Handley, Ohl, Burke, and Herman Seide.

FRANK RANNEY
Scope and Content Note: Success due to hard work; “fought for his people.” Stayed with James Hoffa to last because of what Hoffa had done for rank and file. Good lobbyist. One of foursome that Hall associated with while Capitol lobbyist.

JAKE FRIEDRICK
Scope and Content Note: Quiet, well read, articulate, close to rank and file. As an immigrant, he had a knowledge of hard times. Not a socializer or a drinker. Interested in education.

RUDOLPH FAUPL
Scope and Content Note: Hard working immigrant.

END OF TAPE 3, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

COMMENT ON JOSEPH PADWAY, LABOR LAWYER

ELECTION IN WHICH FRIEDRICK AND FAUPL CHALLENGE HABERMAN [IN 1944]
Scope and Content Note: Hall stayed friends with Faupl while remaining loyal to Haberman. Hall recalls that contest revolved around control by tight group of Milwaukeeans as opposed to broader outstate representation on Board.

SUPPORT FOR FRIEDRICK AND FAUPL AGAINST HABERMAN
Scope and Content Note: Mostly from Milwaukee; not well-known outside Milwaukee area. Ironically, they also lost Milwaukee support. Haberman an effective socializer. Hall attributes Friedrick and Faupl's dissatisfaction with Haberman to Haberman's poor example and image as labor leader--rough language, abuses. Friedrick and Faupl idealistic; felt they were more representative of rank-and-file worker. Haberman wanted workers to come to him on his terms. Like Friedrick and Faupl, Warner Schaeffer close to workers. Attempts to recall who supported whom in the election controversy.

WSFL CONSTITUTION PREAMBLE ON PUBLIC OWNERSHIP
Scope and Content Note: Supporters of change to return clause to constitution calling for public ownership of utilities were socialists. Hall did not support the effort to change preamble. Socialists' loss of control of WSFL due to development and growth of organized labor movement outside Milwaukee. Notes differences between communists and socialists--socialists for equal worker rights while communists desired to dictate to workers.

EXECUTIVE BOARD NEARLY UNANIMOUS ON PREAMBLE VOTE
Scope and Content Note: Electricians strong in defeating clause as they had direct stake in outcome.

CIO AND AFL IN WISCONSIN BOTH INVOLVED IN REJUVENATING STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
Scope and Content Note: CIO more active in getting members to join Party.

FRIEDRICK LOSES FAVOR IN 1940s
Scope and Content Note: Not visible enough around the state.

OUTSTATE REPRESENTATION ON BOARD LIMITED

VIRGINIA WHITE
Scope and Content Note: Never actually served on Board because she was unintelligent, rude, and crude.

CATHERINE CONROY
Scope and Content Note: Fighter, principled; excellent Board member.

UNFAMILIAR WITH GOINGS-ON OF PRESENT WSFL BOARD

HALL'S FEELINGS ABOUT TREATMENT
Scope and Content Note: “You just don't forget the old timers.” Looks forward to coming of new WSFL president (successor to John Schmitt).

END OF INTERVIEW