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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
00:00
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INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION (September 14, 1981 session)
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
00:30
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INTERVIEWER WELCOMES BURKE TO MILWAUKEE
: Visiting from Arizona to attend testimonial dinner for Bertram McNamara, Burke's successor as USWA District #32 Director after Burke elected USWA international secretary-treasurer in 1965.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
01:30
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BIRTH AND BACKGROUND
: Born in 1911 on September 14 (making him seventy years old on day interview held) at Antioch, Illinois. Moved to Waukegan at early age; graduated from Waukegan Township High School in 1930. Worked as assistant teacher of printing. for one and one-half years after graduation before lay-off due to lowered budget. Had learned printing trade from father, who published local paper and did job printing in partnership with twin brother.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
04:20
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BURKE FOLLOWS PARENTS TO FOND DU LAC, WISCONSIN
: No jobs in Waukegan; followed parents to Fond du Lac where they had moved after father lost life savings trying to operate Community Grocery and Market on Waukegan's west side. Forced to liquidate in 1933 after extending too much credit. In Fond du Lac, Burke helped father try to operate a small job printing business that did poorly.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
06:45
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BURKE'S SIBLINGS
: Two younger brothers.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
07:05
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SCARCITY OF WORK DURING DEPRESSION
: “Things went from bad to worse [for the Burkes] in Fond du Lac.” All except short-term jobs nearly impossible to get; Burke joined hundreds of men going from factory to factory searching for work.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
07:55
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LANDS JOB AND BECOMES INTERESTED IN UNION ACTIVITY AT SANITARY REFRIGERATOR COMPANY IN FOND DU LAC
: Hired as temporary employee in 1934 at Sanitary, where he worked through part of 1937. In 1936, Burke and others heard about organizing activities of John L. Lewis and the CIO in auto, mine, and rubber industries; called Milwaukee office of the Steel Workers Organizing Committee (SWOC) to request services of an organizer. Knew of SWOC because newspapers filled with stories of Meyer Adelman's organizing activities in such plants as Harnischfeger and Heil in Milwaukee, and sitdown at Fansteel Metallurgical Co. in Waukegan. SWOC “seemed like a gutsy, forward-looking, forward-moving organization.”
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
11:20
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SWOC ORGANIZER ARRIVES IN FOND DU LAC
: Harold Rasmussen, from Texas originally, sent to Fond du Lac to meet with Burke and other committee members, and to leave three or four hundred membership application cards. All but two or three of the 275-300 member work force signed up in three days.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
12:50
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UNION FORMED ON GOOD FRIDAY, 1937
: Rasmussen presided over formal issuing of charter to Lodge #1435 of the Amalgamated Association of Iron, Steel, and Tin Workers; Burke elected president. Meeting held at AFL Trades and Labor Temple, still possible because AFL and CIO in Fond du Lac had “uneasy relationship.”
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
14:15
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BURKE'S LAY-OFF NOTICE ON HOLY SATURDAY
: Burke, by early 1937 holder of one of the “better-paying” jobs at Sanitary as an inspector at 28-30 cents per hour, greeted by plant superintendent on Saturday with the salutation, “Good morning, Mister President,” before being taken to office of plant head Carlton Mauthe. Mauthe read aloud a copy of union membership application card, expressed disappointment in Burke as he was being considered for management position, and told him that by engaging in union activity he had surrendered his birthright. Laid off later in the day. “I was elected president on Good Friday and fired on Holy Saturday.”
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
19:20
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HARD-CORE ORGANIZERS AT SANITARY REFRIGERATOR CO.
: Five or six others in addition to Burke, all of whom were laid off, comprised the original committee that worked with SWOC to charter #1435.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
20:00
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WORKING CONDITIONS AT SANITARY WHICH PROMOTED UNION ORGANIZING
: “Miserably low wages”: Burke hired at less than fifteen cents per hour in 1934. Job security: “Every spring you could count on being handed a 'Dear John' letter” with summer lay-off notice because of lack of work, only to be replaced by temporary summer help comprised of relatives and college student friends of management. A worker was “privileged”--in the words of Sanitary officials--to reapply for work in the fall, starting over with no seniority based on past employment. Conditions: In department where Burke worked the “driving and pushing” became intolerable. Piecework pay structure key reason for motivating Burke to organize a union; wages held down in his job of nailing together refrigerator doors by not being allowed to exceed quota or piecework readjustment; meant hourly wage of 36-38 cents per hour continued. Speed-up a problem in spray-paint department where Burke was working in 1937; variable speed control for assembly line, manipulated by plant manager, meant that “as the day went on you had to work harder and harder to keep up.” One of key demands in first union contract was that two locks be placed on speed-control housing, with one key held by supervisor, the other by union steward.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
29:25
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AGES OF HARD-CORE ORGANIZERS
: Burke in his mid-twenties probably the youngest; others in their 30's.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
29:55
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CONDITIONS IN OTHER FOND DU LAC FACTORIES
: Tape ends before interviewee responds.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
30:05
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END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
00:00
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INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
00:30
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CONDITIONS IN OTHER FOND DU LAC FACTORIES (CONTINUED)
: Believes, on basis of discussions with other organizers in later years, that similar conditions in other plants included low wages, speed-up, and piecework pay structure.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
01:25
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ORGANIZING IN FOND DU LAC BY UNIONS OTHER THAN SWOC IN 1930's
: Auto workers attempting to organize some plants had the “highest profile”; Allied Industrial Workers made some progress.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
02:10
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NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD (NLRB) HEARING FOLLOWS DISCHARGE OF BURKE AND OTHER UNION ACTIVISTS AT SANITARY REFRIGERATOR CO.
: Rasmussen told Burke to call Milwaukee if any problems developed. Burke did so, talking personally to Meyer Adelman for the first time; SWOC filed charges against Sanitary which, in the meantime, had initiated a company union. Hearing lasted for six weeks, because a Milwaukee attorney dragged it out and probably “bled the company white” in the process. NLRB, about three or four months later, ordered Sanitary to reinstate discharged workers, with back pay.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
06:50
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SANITARY REFRIGERATOR RELUCTANTLY HIRES BACK BURKE AND OTHER UNION LEADERS
: All of the laid-off leaders went back to work at Sanitary, having tried unsuccessfully to obtain employment elsewhere in Fond du Lac. All had been blacklisted.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
08:10
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BURKE ACCEPTS STAFF REPRESENTATIVE POSITION WITH SWOC
: After a week or two back at Sanitary, Meyer Adelman offered Burke job with SWOC. Felt it was time to move on since company was building record against him for “soldiering on the job.” Adelman offered full-time work, but gave no guarantee how long job would last. Anecdote about Burke following through with Adelman's suggestion that he ask Sanitary officials for leave of absence to join SWOC staff.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
11:35
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BEGINNING TO WORK FOR SWOC
: Began on October 15, 1937; based in Fond du Lac initially to service Local #1435, Northern Casket local in North Fond du Lac, Barlow-Seelig Local in Ripon (largest local which had a contract), and several other small unions, and to organize other locals. Finding a “prophet hath no honor in his own home town,” Burke asked Adelman for reassignment.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
14:00
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BURKE TRANSFERS TO BELOIT, A TOUGH ASSIGNMENT
: After transfer in late 1937 or early 1938, Burke began to organize and service locals, including Fairbanks-Morse with over two thousand employees the largest local in District #32, and a half-dozen others. “It was pretty rough here [in the Beloit area]; we subsequently lost some of those locals--the company got to them and they disaffiliated or went independent.... or no union. It was a bad year for organizing; you were hard-pressed to hang on to what you had and even more hard-pressed to acquire new entities.”
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
15:20
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BURKE'S ORGANIZING STRATEGY
: Family ties often provided basis for quietly getting contacts inside a plant; gives example of Beloit Iron Works, which had such an excellent company union that SWOC and other unions made no progress. Small group assembled, membership application cards distributed during non-working hours. Union backed away if “no spark”; if many application cards completed and returned, SWOC began to call meetings, announcing them with leaflets at plant gate. Meetings sometimes well-attended; at other times only “company finks” came. Many disheartening or futile efforts, but successes kept spirits up.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
18:45
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INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZING RIVALRY BETWEEN AFL AND CIO IN WISCONSIN
: Conflict avoided most of the time, especially if dealing with a “reasonable” AFL representative but “frankly, there weren't too many of them around.” To compete with CIO appeal, AFL had a “ploy”--the federal unions--and an assurance that the AFL would organize all workers in one union “just like the CIO only better because we're older and more experienced...and don't have all of those wild-eyed radicals in our midst....” CIO, a “bonafide” industrial union, retorted that FLU's eventually would be left only with unskilled and semi-skilled workers once AFL internationals raided FLU's.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
22:15
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WHY WISCONSIN HAS MANY FEDERAL LABOR UNIONS
: Suspects that craft internationals interested only in the “cream of the crop” despite many “little guys” across the state. Such AFL field representatives in Wisconsin as Jake Friedrick and Charley Heymanns, the latter of whom “led the onslaught against my local,” truly believed that FLU's a better type of organization for smaller factories. In all, the most important factor was that the work force insisted on an industrial form of organization.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
25:00
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COMMENTS ON MEYER ADELMAN, WALTER BURKE'S MENTOR
: “One of the unsung, much-maligned individuals of the industrial union movement in Wisconsin,” Adelman was never a member of the Communist Party.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
26:05
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MORE REMARKS ABOUT ADELMAN
: Adelman felt he could use the Communists, “but they ended up using him.” Physically imposing, at one time weighing 480 pounds while 5 feet 10 inches in height. Worked between eighteen and twenty hours per day. Burke often drove Adelman around to “check and District”; company personnel never challenged Adelman if he barged into a plant to keep an appointment with a worker. A good, though not polished speaker. Basic philosophy was more like an anarchist when it came to the union: “ Nothing must interfere with the progress of the Union.” “Later, we were all painted with the same brush--Red.”
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
30:10
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END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
00:00
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INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
00:30
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ADDITIONAL COMMENTS ON MEYER ADELMAN
: No one ever threatened him physically. Liked because he spoke a language people understood. Adelman's directorship, legacy, and record inherited by Burke.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
01:40
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RADICALISM IN WISCONSIN STATE INDUSTRIAL UNION COUNCIL (STATE IUC) EXECUTIVE BOARD
: Burke became member of State IUC executive board in 1939 after Emil Costello and Gunnar Mickelsen completed terms as president and secretary respectively.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
03:35
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MORE ON RADICALISM IN STATE IUC EXECUTIVE BOARD
: After Costello and Mickelsen terms on board created uproar, “it was decided” they had to relinquish IUC positions. Harvey Kitzman and Burke elected to fill their positions to give IUC a “cloak of respectability.” Burke not a Communist (“Never had any use for them”), nor was Kitzman, but Executive Board heavily laced with Party members and “fellow travellers.” Burke and Kitzman not policy-makers; had to go along with forceful majority resolutions on such issues as the Scottsboro Boys case and J. Edgar Hoover condemnation. Later, newspapers like the Milwaukee Sentinel--especially in the “John Sentinel Series”--tarred everyone including Burke with the same brush, although series refrained from calling Burke an out-and-out communist.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
10:55
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IMPACT OF “JOHN SENTINEL SERIES” ON BURKE
: Contributed to a delay in Burke's “awakening” because others, like Burke, denied charges of being a communist.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
14:10
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BURKE BECOMES DISILLUSIONED WITH COMMUNISTS DESPITE THEIR DEPENDABILITY
: Anecdote about organizing at Bucyrus-Erie, where dedicated Party members could always be depended on to leaflet at plant gate despite threat of physical dangers from management-hired, anti-union goons. Burke became disenchanted with Party members before Adelman, who referred to them as “church members.” Adelman used communists successfully until Party succeeded in “boring from within.” Recalls how shift in line from “Yanks Are Not Coming” to “Second Front Now” disillusioned Party members Burke knew personally.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
19:35
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HOW COMMUNIST PARTY DOMINATES STATE IUC EXECUTIVE BOARD
: Explains how each international, i.e. fur, UE, retail clerks, etc., elected own board members and ended up in caucuses which were “communistically-oriented.”
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
22:15
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COMMUNISTS CLEANED OUT OF STATE IUC IN 1940's; IUC MOVES TO THE RIGHT
: After Burke went to Pittsburgh to work on USWA Wage and Equity Committee, State IUC Constitution changed to elect all board members at-large, a change that routed most communists. “The purge was necessary without question to get rid of the communists....” “The only trouble was that once the pendulum swung right, it stuck.” Appalled how anti-international union members elected to IUC board by the time returned to Wisconsin.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
24:40
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BURKE'S WORK IN PITTSBURGH DISTRACTS FROM EVENTS IN WISCONSIN LABOR
: Took Pittsburgh assignment because “the boss [Philip Murray] said, 'This is what you do.'” Burke selected because familiar with NEMA Manual, promulgated by the National Electrical Manufacturers' Association, and experienced in job evaluation procedures. Despite separation from wife and children, work as part of an eight-man committee proved to be tremendous on-site experience.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
29:30
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RETURNS TO WISCONSIN TO SUCCEED ADELMAN AS DISTRICT #32 DIRECTOR
: Recalls shock after Phil Murray revealed how ill Adelman lay in Milwaukee.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
30:00
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END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 1
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
00:00
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INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
00:30
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RETURNS TO WISCONSIN TO SUCCEED ADELMAN AS DISTRICT #32 DIRECTOR (CONTINUED)
: Newspaper red-baiting had led to much anti-Adelman sentiment by the time he died. Murray officially appointed Burke acting director the day after Adelman's funeral.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
02:50
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COMMENT ON VAN BITTNER
: Anti-communist who like Murray recognized that Adelman was becoming more and more expendable because of growing anti-Adelman sentiment. Speculates Adelman would have been transferred from District #32 directorship had he lived.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
03:55
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ANTI-INTERNATIONAL STEEL WORKERS BECOME ENTRENCHED IN WISCONSIN CIO
: Anti-international sentiment led by John Sorenson, “plodding, dedicated, implacable” in his opposition, and followed by others including Sid Day of Chain Belt, Herman Steffes and Roy Speth of UAW. Constant “griping and groaning” led steelworkers to look elsewhere for state leadership.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
06:35
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CLARIFICATION OF TERM “RIGHT” IN DESCRIBING POST-PURGE DIRECTION OF STATE IUC
: A condition in the state IUC that no self-respecting international union could live with. Steelworkers were “rolled-over, mowed-down, and stomped-in” by the convention bloc vote rule.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
08:00
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STATE IUC UNDER CHARLES SCHULTZ
: Some improvement after Schultz became IUC president and when voting procedure changed again to allow steel to elect own representative to IUC board. Schultz a “somewhat inept” creation of the IUC power bloc, a middle-of-the-roader elected because of long-time understanding that auto would elect the president, steel the secretary-treasurer.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
09:15
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BITTERNESS LINGERS BETWEEN AFL AND CIO IN WISCONSIN PRIOR TO MERGER IN MID-1950's
: WSFL president George Haberman reluctant to learn “new tricks” in early days of presidency. Leftist State CIO News had rarely missed chance to take pot-shots at AFL and Haberman, A fact which Haberman never forgot. Burke as chairman for a time of CIO Merger Committee, found Haberman very difficult to work with; thought Haberman preferred to decimate CIO rather than merge with it. Slight progress in merger negotiations would be followed by setback. Ultimately, it took George Meany and his representatives to bring about a “shotgun wedding.” Meany solved the “insolvable” issues, finally asking rhetorically and declaring, “Did youse come down here [to Washington] to argue or debate or to moige? I'll tell you why you came down here, you came down here to moige and I'm the guy who is gonna moige ya.”
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
14:20
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MERGER IN VARIOUS WISCONSIN CENTRAL LABOR BODIES
: Burke's activities confined to state organization as CIO Committee chair.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
15:15
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MORE ON HABERMAN AS WSFL, THEN STATE AFL-CIO PRESIDENT
: Took Haberman several years to realize that CIO “didn't have horns and cloven hooves.” Anti-Haberman bloc several years after merger offered presidency to Burke but he and Haberman good friends by then. Speculates if he and Steelworkers had agreed to join anti-Haberman faction, it would have endangered the state AFL-CIO. Haberman “almost became a liberal” after several years as president of state AFL-CIO although he was “I believe, a professed Republican.”
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
18:05
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ROLE OF CIO IN WISCONSIN IN HELPING TO BUILD “NEW” DEMOCRATIC PARTY
: “Steel, auto, and industrial unions in general” kept hacking away, raising funds, and using organization knowledge to help new party emerge.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
19:55
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BURKE'S OWN POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS SINCE EARLY 1930's
: Cast first vote for Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1932; since has always voted for Democrats in national elections, and is a registered Democrat today. Recalls how the La Follette brothers were “real barn-burners” from hearing each speak from steps of Fond du Lac County courthouse.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
21:30
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WHAT CIO MEANS TO WISCONSIN WORKERS AND TO THE WISCONSIN LABOR MOVEMENT
: Wisconsin would have been sparsely organized had the CIO not existed; CIO helped to force AFL to organize on an industrial basis. Large plants like A.O. Smith wouldn't have been organized by either CIO or AFL and would today be “open shop” plants. AFL formed an “impregnable” FLU at Smith.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
23:30
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ATTITUDES OF YOUNG WORKERS TOWARDS LABOR UNIONS
: Current generation of workers think differently, but Burke has retained great confidence in them. Recalls 1965 USWA election, when he agreed to run on I. W. Abel ticket because change was needed, and membership supported change. Found that whenever USWA troubled over dues structure or policy issues, membership responded with support if situation presented honestly. Modern workers on threshold of computer age which holds promise of smaller work force at a dozen or so “super mills.” Auto plants, workers, and trade unions all will survive but decisions ahead promise to be agonizing. If young workers lack in anything it is in “experience in the school of hard knocks,” unlike union organizers of Burke's era.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
28:55
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WHITE COLLAR ORGANIZING
: Trade unions must organize white collar workers in order to survive.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
30:05
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END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 2
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
00:00
|
INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
00:30
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CONCLUDING REMARKS
: Interviewer invited to visit Burke at his Arizona home to resume taped discussion, concluded because of Burke's Milwaukee-area schedule.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
02:30
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END OF INTERVIEW SESSION
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
00:00
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INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION (February 22, 1982 session)
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
00:30
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OPENING REMARKS
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
01:00
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CORRECTIONS IN CHRONOLOGY FROM LAST TAPING SESSION
: Went to Pittsburgh in January 1945 instead of 1942 to work with USWA Wage and Equity Committee. Returned to Milwaukee in April 1947 to assume District 32 directorship after Meyer Adelman's death.
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
03:00
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IMPACT OF CHANGE IN INDUSTRIAL WORK FORCE ON UNION ORGANIZING DURING WORLD WAR II
: Change in problems, not in style of organization. More leeway and less inhibited ability to organize because of government regulations. Attempts by management to oppose union organizing generally frowned upon by government. Approach generally the same: leaflet a plant, try to make worker contacts in plant often through family connections. Were more blacks and many more women in work force. Tried to obtain from management same rights for women as for men, with equal pay for equal work; management in some cases attempted to lower women's wage by twenty to forty cents per hour. Blacks usually hired for more menial jobs, but scarcity of workers meant blacks must be more widely distributed. Much time and effort spent in many plants. Some women and blacks “more willing, eager and active members” of USWA because “we were in their corner.”
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
07:25
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POST-WAR SITUATION WHEN WAR VETERANS RETURN
: Wide-ranging problems from menial to aggravated. Employers bound to reinstate jobs to returned veterans with support from USWA which, however, did not support laying off or firing all women. Situation varied from plant to plant; some employers sacked women even before veterans returned.
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
09:35
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BURKE'S WORK WITH WAR LABOR BOARD
: Burke seated on an OPM tripartite panel to arbitrate labor-management disputes. Labor had no strike policy. Of the three representatives, one each for labor, industry, and public, the latter representative often the key person. Never a dearth of opportunities to serve on panels and Burke frequently had to decline because of pressing District 32 business.
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
13:00
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WORK STOPPAGES IN USWA LOCALS
: Can't recall of a single occurrence; if there was it was minor and of short duration.
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
14:15
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WHAT SET OUT TO DO AFTER ASSUMES DISTRICT 32 DIRECTORSHIP IN 1947
: Basic problem to maintain district, largely in good shape. Membership had increased during war years. Kept locals notified of contract termination dates well in advance. Participated with regular negotiating staff in home stretch of negotiating new contracts. Set out to repair or eliminate disunity in district since some locals, large and small, had grown displeased with Adelman and “Pittsburgh.” Strict USWA policy on local financial accountability, with audit report due every six months. Some Milwaukee area locals had set up extracurricular “sportsmens,” “welfare,” or “benevolent” funds supported by local dues and refused to let international auditors examine books. Locals at Heil, Chain Belt, and Pressed Steel Tank among those with such funds. International, insisting all funds be returned to central treasury, had some suspicion real purpose of extracurricular funds was to build resources for eventual disaffiliation from USWA. Situation delicate for Burke to step into as a “Pittsburgh man,” but eventually worked out without USWA losing large local.
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
22:45
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BURKE'S STYLE COMPARED TO ADELMAN'S
: Adelman blunt, though would try to persuade through logic. Burke more patient. Speculates had Adelman lived and had had to deal with extra-curricular fund situations, there would have been eruptions.
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
25:15
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FACTIONALISM WITHIN USWA LOCALS FOLLOWS PURGE OF LEFTISTS
: Never a steelworkers local in District 32 dominated by communists or others on the far left. Some locals had Party members, some of whom may have been officers, but never a situation in steel like that at UAW Local 248. Communists never shaped policy or affected party line in steelworkers locals. “It just didn't happen.” If Communist Party members were involved in open-shop unions, they were there because management hired them. “Anyone who says that the steelworkers union in District 32 was communistically-oriented and followed the community line just doesn't know the situation.” Some leaders like John Sorenson and Vincent Podlogar, however, never accepted Burke or Pittsburgh leadership in USWA.
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Tape/Side
4/1
Time
29:15
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END OF TAPE 4, SIDE 1
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
00:00
|
INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
00:30
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IMPACT OF “JOHN SENTINEL” SERIES IN MILWAUKEE SENTINEL ON BURKE'S EFFECTIVENESS
: Never encountered static at collective bargaining table; felt employers gave articles little credulence. No one took him to task for his alleged left tendencies. Even William Grede, one of outstanding union-busters in Milwaukee area, never called Burke a communist. No problem with membership either; opposition from some local leaders based on anti-international feelings, not Burke's alleged ties in earlier years.
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
02:50
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BURKE'S SENTIMENT TOWARDS “REFORM” FACTION IN STATE INDUSTRIAL UNION COUNCIL AND MILWAUKEE COUNTY IUC
: Majority faction that took control was “something else.” Purge of left-wingers made possible by constitutional change while Burke in Pittsburgh; at-large election of board instead of caucus system, which leftists use to solidify power by controlling the board. Caucuses always returned same left-wingers from such unions as fur and leather, farm equipment workers, and united cannery and agricultural workers. Situation made Burke uncomfortable when he was secretary-treasurer of state IUC. Once caucus system altered, pendulum swung right and got stuck. When Burke returned to district, communists and left-wingers seemed to have been completely purged, with auto, steel, and IUE having preponderance of IUC votes. Steelworker representatives opposed to USWA and “not truly representative of steelworkers union.” Burke especially uncomfortable with Podlogar, who represented steel on state IUC.
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
08:40
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STATE IUC CONVENTION AT WAUSAU TURNS OUT LEFTISTS
: Burke not there, but those who were “did what they had to do to get rid of them, but then they were unwilling to go back...“ when UAW representative consistently joined steel representatives on State IUC board to vote against board members preferred by Burke and USWA.
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
09:15
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EVOLUTION OF STATE IUC PRESIDENT/SECRETARY-TREASURER
: Costello and Mickelsen involved in leftist activities from the beginning, then “water got too hot for them to swim in and they realized they'd have to go.” Arrangement made for representative of auto, largest organized group, to assume presidency, and for steel to fill second highest position as secretary-treasurer. Not a constitutional provision but decision made by consensus and voting strength. Pattern continued until merger.
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
11:25
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WHY EMIL COSTELLO A SUCCESSFUL ORGANIZER
: An excellent speaker, likeable, good mixer, a “barnburner” who could stir up otherwise lethargic people. Adelman hired Costello on USWA staff and used him largely in Beloit and Milwaukee areas, moving from plant to plant. Often follow-up person found it difficult to live up to Costello's promises. Because of hammering Costello took from press, he later became a liability. Burke worked closely with Costello and “never did he beat me about the ears with pure Marx.” Privately admitted his political affiliation but not a doctrinaire communist. Very outgoing, likeable, friendly individual. Employers north of Milwaukee, in particular, used press to discredit Costello and USWA, and became a liability.
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
18:15
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BURKE'S FIRST LOCAL, #1435, AT SANITARY REFRIGERATOR COMPANY, ALMOST LEAVES CIO
: Sanitary Refrigerator Co. management set up company union in attempt to turn out Local 1435. Union ill-led, went to AFL organizer Charles Heymanns for cloak of respectability, and AFL ended up taking over a company union. NLRB election resulted in CIO victory.
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
22:00
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IMPACT OF TAFT-HARTLEY ACT ON UNION LEFTISM
: Never a persistence of leftism in any steelworker locals; just “a few guys who made a lot of noise” and going to meetings of “Commie front organizations....”
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
23:20
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LABOR INVOLVEMENT IN POLITICAL EDUCATION/ACTION ACTIVITIES
: Both AFL and CIO realized with passage of Taft-Hartley Act that what had been achieved on picket line or at bargaining table could be eliminated “with the stroke of a...pen.” AFL policy for many years was to “reward your friends and defeat your enemies” based on analysis of existing lawmakers. Little AFL effort made, however, to support candidates who challenged incumbents. CIO policy different, becoming much more active in political scene almost always to support Democrats because Republicans not sympathetic to things CIO believed in. Time after time Republicans did not support legislative, economic, and ideological goals of organized labor. Cites contemporary Arizona Republicans as example of those “back with Genghis Khan and Queen Victoria.” CIO encouraged liberals to run for political office, and in that sense took positive political action earlier than AFL.
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
28:35
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INCREASE IN DISTRICT 32 INVOLVEMENT IN POLITICAL EDUCATION IN EARLY 1950's
: Urged locals to work for voter registration.
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Tape/Side
4/2
Time
29:20
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END OF TAPE 4, SIDE 2
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
00:00
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INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
00:30
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CONTINUATION OF DISCUSSION ABOUT DISTRICT 32 INVOLVEMENT IN POLITICAL EDUCATION
: Advocated postcard to encourage registration, set up telephone banks and car pools.
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
02:05
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TAFT-HARTLEY ACT AS MOTIVATING FORCE
: “Bad piece of legislation” for many reasons, from labor's standpoint. Provided free speech for employers but coerced employees. Labor made effort to elect representatives who would get act repealed. National right to work (“'national right to work cheaper' I would term it”) forces a constant threat if labor not politically vigilant. Minimum wages and equal rights remained issues important to labor and stimulated political action. CIO recognized that before AFL.
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
05:20
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EFFORTS TO COORDINATE POLITICAL EFFORTS
: Developed procedures where endorsements made through state or county CIO councils, followed by state and local councils after merger. COPE a broadly-based organization to agree on endorsements. More difficult to work with AFL in Wisconsin before merger because it held onto “reward your friends” philosophy. Haberman a Republican would come up with endorsements that “curdled my blood.”
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
07:50
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LABOR POLITICAL COOPERATION WITH OTHER WISCONSIN ORGANIZATIONS
: Burke not personally involved, but CIO looked for allies wherever they could be found among farm groups, teachers organizations, etc. Little in common with Farm Bureau, the equivalent of the manufacturers' association.
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
09:40
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WHY NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY BLOSSOMED IN WISCONSIN
: Labor and liberal farmers mainly responsible for building party to turn out Republicans after end of La Follette Progressive Party. CIO initially and AFL-CIO ultimately played very important role in successful Democratic Party. Proxmire election in 1957 the turning point. CIO's final state election in La Crosse featured Proxmire; Burke recalls he “was looking for a hole to crawl into” by time Proxmire's speech was over. “Bill's been a most unusual guy since he's been down there [in Washington].”
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
13:45
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NELSON'S ELECTION AS GOVERNOR IN 1958
: Labor attracted to Nelson's charisma. A good campaigner, Nelson's pro-labor legislative program appealing. Labor was “never disappointed” in Nelson as Governor or Senator, although labor had to concede a sales tax.
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
15:30
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KENNEDY-HUMPHREY PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY IN 1960
: Humphrey always a “dear friend” of labor, especially when compared to Alexander Wiley and Joseph McCarthy. Never difficult for labor leaders and rank-and-file to support Humphrey. Kennedy with magnetism and charm jumped in at a time when labor heavily supported Humphrey. USWA board, mainly because David McDonald had given Kennedy a hand-shake agreement, met and endorsed Kennedy despite opposition from Burke and others. Wisconsin State AFL-CIO, heavily in favor of Humphrey, settled for dual endorsement proposed by Burke. Speculates that Humphrey lost because many Republicans crossed over to vote for Kennedy as the easier opponent for Republicans in general election. Wisconsin primary critical for Kennedy; ultimate result came from Kennedy's being able to work a crowd even better than Humphrey.
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
28:15
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ATTRACTION OF INDUSTRIAL WORKERS TO GEORGE WALLACE
: Wallace a spellbinder who resorted to catch-phrase, “let's send 'em a message.” General discontent with Washington bureaucrats used by Wallace and later Reagan. Wallace a demagogue.
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Tape/Side
5/1
Time
29:45
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END OF TAPE 5, SIDE 1
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
00:00
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INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
00:30
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CONTINUATION OF DISCUSSION ON GEORGE WALLACE
: Wallace used a Huey Long approach that appealed to workers, whose support mystified Burke.
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
01:40
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PATRICK LUCEY'S SUPPORT IN INDUSTRIAL AREAS OF WISCONSIN
: Lucey with some difficulty gained labor's endorsement; Burke recalls spending two hours convincing John Schmitt to support Lucey endorsement. Burke himself lukewarm towards Lucey, persistent and dogged although “one of the poorest campaigners that has ever trodden the Wisconsin political scene.” By Burke's standards, Lucey's positions were often wishy-washy as he tried to “carry water on both shoulders.” Refutes contention that labor leaders can politically lead rank-and-file around by their noses although leadership endorsements often heeded by membership.
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
05:30
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JOHN REYNOLDS AS CAMPAIGNER
: Pleasant person but weak candidate on speaker's platform, where he was less effective than Lucey.
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
06:30
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WHY TIME WAS RIGHT FOR AFL-CIO MERGER
: Increasingly difficult for either organization to increase membership; labor not as effective on political scene as should have been, with little pro-labor legislation enacted. Both AFL and CIO came to realize that endless raiding dissipated labor's strength and money and had become counterproductive. In hindsight, Burke feels 1936 split a tragedy because competition, often vicious, was counterproductive. Green's and Lewis's departure led to growing affinity among such leaders as George Meany, Philip Murray, and David McDonald.
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
11:25
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BURKE'S ROLE IN MERGER TALKS BETWEEN WSFL AND STATE IUC
: Burke chaired CIO merger committee because he had not been involved in acrimonious exchanges between WSFL President George Haberman and CIO Council members, and because he represented a substantial union that, unlike the UAW, favored merger. Merger close several times, only to suffer setbacks because of item appearing in the press. Recalls Bob Troyer of CIO News ran article that ran roughshod over Haberman. Burke not close to anyone on AFL side during merger discussions; had no arguments with Haberman though he found him “cold and curt.”
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
15:20
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BURKE'S LATITUDE AS CIO COMMITTEE CHAIR
: Meetings large and open, which made agreement more difficult. Committee member John Schmitt was a “fine trade unionist” but not a diplomat, making statements which forced Burke to “walk the tightrope.” Finally, a demanding series of negotiations led to agreement on all but three or four issues which had to be resolved in Washington.
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
17:45
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MERGER ISSUES RESOLVED BY GEORGE MEANY IN WASHINGTON
: CIO desire to continue CIO News, detested by Haberman, and several other issues needed to be resolved. Recalls it was a “monumental achievement” to get Haberman to agree to meet with Meany. Well understood, however, was that WSFL would retain presidency which had at least a two-to-one edge over state CIO in membership. At later merger convention, no one could have beaten Haberman.
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
21:05
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COMMENTS ON CHARLES SCHULTZ, STATE CIO PRESIDENT
: A “wonder kid who emerged from nowhere after the Christoffel-Buse period at UAW Local 248.” Good talker, energetic, supported by UAW, “poor Charley” couldn't stand prosperity, got caught up in personal problems, and lost favor of UAW. Vaguely recalls 1960 Schultz endorsement of Republican candidate for Milwaukee mayor, but Schultz often made public statements without clearing them with own board and membership. Career in labor flamed and faded like a meteor.
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
26:25
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SCHMITT AS A GOOD COPE DIRECTOR
: Schultz debacle so serious that AFL side wouldn't support anyone from UAW for COPE director, even at a time when closeness hadn't developed between AFL and CIO despite merger. Schmitt, an active, good trade unionist, and well-liked in Milwaukee, played up his role in merger negotiations and accepted position after Burke declined because UAW would have opposed him, and no other candidate from steel in sight.
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Tape/Side
5/2
Time
29:50
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END OF TAPE 5, SIDE 2
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Tape/Side
6/1
Time
00:00
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INTERVIEWER'S INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
6/1
Time
00:30
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MORE ON JOHN SCHMITT
: Schmitt early in his career accepted no counsel from anyone but eventually he and Burke became good friends who would discuss the pros and cons of an issue. AFL and Haberman, the latter somewhat reluctantly, supported Schmitt for COPE position. Brewery workers a non-controversial group in comparison to auto and steel workers.
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Tape/Side
6/1
Time
02:25
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HOW SCHMITT CONSOLIDATED POWER FROM 1960-66
: Effective on state AFL-CIO board, there was no reason to pass him over when the time came. By 1966 had been flurries of opposition to Haberman from Howard Pellant and John Heidenreich. Burke refused to support either since bloodletting would have resulted from forceful removal of Haberman.
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Tape/Side
6/1
Time
05:10
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CHANGES IN HABERMAN BEFORE RETIREMENT
: “I'd come to respect the old boy,” who had become much more liberal in political endorsements; may have remained a Republican but even endorsed Hubert Humphrey. Became easier to talk to, more acceptable as time went on, after discovering that CIO side not “cloven-hoofed and haunted.”
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Tape/Side
6/1
Time
07:50
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BURKE AS POSSIBLE SUCCESSOR TO HABERMAN AS STATE AFL-CIO PRESIDENT
: Had Burke not been elected secretary-treasurer of USWA on I. W. Abel ticket in 1964, “the day might have come...had the presidency of the AFL-CIO in Wisconsin been offered I probably would have said yes.” Several years earlier, in 1962, the presidency had been offered to Burke “on a silver platter” by group on AFL side comprised largely of building trades. Tempted, but desired to complete unfinished business as district director. Would have found it difficult to take on Schmitt in 1966.
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Tape/Side
6/1
Time
14:55
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UNION CLUB AT SUN CITY, ARIZONA
: Burke retired to Sun City after forty years in labor movement. Found Phoenix area and Sun City filled with poor social policy, newspapers filled with anti-labor articles and editorials. Few in Sun City retirement community would admit labor background because of disdain shown by most residents. I. W. Abel and Larry Spitz, Burke's former USWA administrative assistant, organized a forum and meeting place for retired trade unionists after discovering thousands lived in retirement in Sun City. Fifty or sixty attended first meeting; in 1982 after two and one-half years the Union Club had membership of 1800, representing over fifty international unions. Viable, ongoing, activist organization has conducted price watches over food-store items, engaged in legislative lobbying in interests of retired people, and established consulting committee for residents to turn to when need home repairs done at fair price. Attendance at each meeting now averages from 700-1000. Vicious accusations of Union Club consisting of “labor goons” has died down since purpose of Club has become evident.
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Tape/Side
6/1
Time
28:15
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CONCLUDING REMARKS BY INTERVIEWEE
: Grateful to State Historical Society of Wisconsin for engaging in history of labor and conducting oral history interviews with participants in making that history.
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Tape/Side
6/1
Time
29:20
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END OF INTERVIEW
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