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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
00:30
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BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH
: Graduated from Riverside High School, Milwaukee, February 1938. Enrolled in University of Wisconsin with intention of becoming a Certified Public Accountant. School six months, work for a year, school six months. Worked at Pabst Brewery for four weeks before entering Army. Returned to Milwaukee from World War II service in December 1945. Went back to school for a short time, then returned to Pabst.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
02:50
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GOES TO WORK FOR MILLER BREWING COMPANY, JANUARY 1949
: Ran a labelling machine in the bottle house while waiting for job as timekeeper. Within two weeks was complaining of conditions -- short-handed crews and foremen doing line work. Since timekeepers were not in the union, decided not to seek that position. Elected shop steward February 1949.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
05:10
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UNION POSITIONS
: Several committees in Brewery Workers Local 9 [International Union of United Brewery, Flour, Cereal, Soft Drink, and Distillery Workers of America] prior to election as shop steward. Elected to Wisconsin State Industrial Union Council (State IUC) Executive Board, 1951. Local 9 Recording Secretary (similar to a business agent, a paid position), 1952. Executive Vice President, Wisconsin State AFL-CIO (State AFL-CIO), 1960. President, State AFL-CIO, 1966.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
06:35
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MORE BIOGRAPHICAL BACKGROUND
: Father a welder for A.O. Smith Corporation; mother a housewife with four children.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
07:15
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FEDERAL LABOR UNIONS IN WISCONSIN
: American Federation of Labor (AFL) answer to the Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO). Wisconsin had probably 18,000-20,000 members of Federal Labor Unions at time of State IUC merger with Wisconsin State Federation of Labor (WSFL). Very few Federal Labor Unions remain today, the largest being at the A.O. Smith Corporation. Brewery Workers Local 9 now has a Directly Affiliated Labor Union (DALU) charter, successor phrase to Federal Labor Union. After merger, AFL-CIO regional directors' service of Federal Labor Unions was poorer, and this encouraged Federal Labor Unions to affiliate with international unions. A majority of Wisconsin Federal Labor Unions affiliated with former CIO unions. Wisconsin had more Federal Labor Unions than other states because the WSFL was more active and because the state had a lot of heavy industry.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
12:55
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MORE BIOGRAPHICAL BACKGROUND
: When Schmitt entered the Army, he quit his job at Pabst rather than taking a leave of absence because he intended to go to school after the war. Elected to State IUC Executive Board in 1951 because he had been very active in both his local and also the Milwaukee County Industrial Union Council (Milwaukee IUC), even though he was not an officer in either organization.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
13:50
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AFFILIATION OF THE BREWERY WORKERS WITH THE CIO AND THE MILWAUKEE IUC
: Expelled from the AFL in 1938 because of refusal to turn over truck drivers to Teamsters Union. By a vote of over 90 percent in the affirmative, affiliated with CIO in 1946. People from the United Auto Workers (UAW), the Communication Workers of America (CWA), the United Steelworkers of America (USWA) and other unions approached Schmitt and Local 9 officers about getting active in the Milwaukee IUC because it was felt Local 9's 8,000 members would help oust the Communist leadership of the Milwaukee IUC. Schmitt immediately got very active in the Milwaukee IUC.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
15:45
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RETURN TO THE SYSTEM OF ELECTING STATE IUC EXECUTIVE BOARD MEMBERS BY INTERNATIONAL UNION, 1951
: Brewery Workers and other militant unions insisted on this change against the wishes of State IUC President Herman Steffes. When the Brewery Workers caucused to select their two Board members, Schmitt was selected as one and an outstate member was given the other seat.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
16:55
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REASON FOR DELAY IN BREWERY WORKERS AFFILIATING WITH CIO
: World War II occurred shortly after expulsion from AFL. Brewery Worker leadership and constitution were AFL-oriented. German, for instance, was still the predominant language at the first Local 9 meetings Schmitt attended in 1942. The strong socialist tradition of the Brewery Workers made them leery of the CIO's Communists. Local 9 leaders were all active in the Socialist Party. Local 9 invested lots of money in the Milwaukee Leader, and all the members read it.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
18:45
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YOUNG WORLD WAR II VETERANS BRING A MILITANT SPIRIT INTO LOCAL 9
: Feeling the contracts signed during World War II were inferior, they became an effective device to oppose the old leadership. The militants' base was in Miller Brewing, which was expanding after the war. Schmitt was elected to the Local 9 Executive Board in 1951; he was the youngest member of the Board. When he was a timekeeper at Pabst, he was able to move about the bottling house and to meet many members. He also served on many Local 9 committees, including the important entertainment committee. Schmitt compares his position today to that of the older leaders he used to challenge in the Milwaukee IUC and Local 9.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
23:25
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WHY SCHMITT BECOMES SO ACTIVE IN LOCAL 9
: Having been a sergeant in the Army, he had leadership experience. Also, he had always been very active in competitive sports, even to the point of purposely selecting third shift because he wanted to play baseball four or five nights a week. He also had a genuine feeling that the union could get better contracts. Active in the 1949 strike, he was disappointed in the settlement.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
24:45
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THE 1953 BREWERY WORKERS' STRIKE IN MILWAUKEE
: Schmitt was Recording Secretary of Local 9 during this 76-day strike. Had he known before it would last that long, he wonders whether he would have even called the strike; initially he felt the strike would only last about four weeks. Finally got a very good settlement on July 26 by getting Blatz to come to terms and thus break the solid employer front. That strike made Schmitt; he never had any opposition in Local 9 after that. Strike lowered the work week to 37 1/2 hours and initiated a pension plan, departmental seniority, and employer-paid health and life insurance. About eight and a half cents of the original ten cents negotiated for the pension plan went toward funding past employment credits. Workers got credits for every year they had worked in Milwaukee brewing prior to 1953. Compares original pension and insurance plans negotiated in 1953 to current Brewery Workers' benefits.
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Tape/Side
1/1
Time
27:30
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END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
00:30
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MORE ON THE 1953 BREWERY WORKERS' STRIKE
: Some workers voted against settlement, but Schmitt feels they were simply that small percentage of workers who never vote for an agreement, although they would if they felt their vote would actually prolong the strike. The 1953 settlement a great settlement and provided the basis for many future gains, especially in the area of fringe benefits. Schmitt feels he was lucky in getting the settlement. Blatz was suffering the most, and Schmitt was able to convince its president, Frank Verbest, to settle. Pabst and Schlitz able to bring in beer from outside Milwaukee. The biggest stumbling block was the union's demand for a 35-hour week. Blatz would not go below 37 1/2 hours. Schmitt felt he had to settle and get the workers back to work before the summer beer season was gone. The other breweries signed within 24 hours.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
03:35
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COMMUNIST LEADERSHIP IN THE STATE IUC
: Key was UAW Local 248 (Allis-Chalmers). Harold Christoffel and Robert Buse were good trade unionists and good speakers. Schmitt feels their members followed them because they were good unionists, not because they were Communists.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
04:35
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OUSTING OF THE “COMMUNIST” LEADERSHIP
: Harvey Kitzman (UAW), Walter Burke (USWA), Schmitt and others worked to elect “what I consider our people” to Milwaukee IUC and State IUC leadership positions. The Brewery Workers split their vote at the 1946 State IUC convention which ousted the Communist leadership. Schmitt is not convinced State IUC Secretary-Treasurer Mel Heinritz was a Communist because he was a practicing Catholic. [Schmitt incorrectly identified Heinritz as State IUC President.]
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
05:30
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HERMAN STEFFES, NON-COMMUNIST PRESIDENT OF STATE IUC, 1946
: Schmitt never thought much of Steffes; when elected to the State IUC Executive Board in 1951, he planned with others to unseat Steffes. In 1952, Charles Schultz defeated Steffes.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
06:45
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COMMUNISTS ABLE TO GAIN CONTROL OF THE CIO IN WISCONSIN BECAUSE THEY WERE GREAT SPEAKERS
: Also very knowledgeable and able unionists. “They were spell-binders,” and the workers were looking for leadership.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
08:35
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STABILITY OF THE BREWERY WORKERS
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
09:35
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ASSESSMENT OF THE EFFECTS OF COMMUNIST LEADERSHIP ON THE STATE IUC
: Communists provided a service by providing militant leadership when it was needed. “They helped form the CIO into a viable organization.... We just built on it.”
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
10:15
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STATE IUC AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
: Seeing the Democratic Party as the one “with the only sense of hope and direction,” about 15 State IUC leaders joined the Party in 1950. State IUC leadership stayed with the Democratic Party until after the election of Gaylord Nelson as Governor. The Party was then starting to take a new twist. Once Pat Lucey became Governor, “the Party became secondary” to the Governor.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
11:15
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DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE COMMUNIST AND NON-COMMUNIST STATE IUC LEADERSHIP
: Non-communist leaders got more involved in legislation and politics; in cooperation with Milwaukee Federated Trades Council (Milwaukee FTC), formed Labor's Political League about 1949.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
12:15
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AFL-CIO MERGER
: Merger a good thing and made labor more effective. AFL-CIO constitution patterned to great extent after the old CIO constitution. George Meany, a great labor leader, was changed by the merger. Disaffiliation of the UAW [in 1968] based largely on politics.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
13:35
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CHANGES IN STATE IUC'S POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (PAC) UNDER NON-COMMUNIST LEADERSHIP
: PAC became much more involved in politics and more united in its politics. Many CIO people voted Joseph McCarthy for U.S. Senate in 1946 “because he was a great Commie fighter... That was still some of the mixed up politics we had.”
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
15:30
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DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WSFL AND STATE IUC--POLITICS AND LEGISLATION
: WSFL more narrowly interested in purely labor issues, whereas State IUC also concerned with more general social legislation.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
16:30
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INABILITY OF JAKE FRIEDRICK TO WIN ELECTION AT THE WSFL LEVEL
: Untouchable in Milwaukee, but outstate people felt he was too far left.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
17:30
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MANY NON-COMMUNISTS UNHAPPY WITH STATE IUC TICKET IN 1946
: John Sorenson, Steffes' running mate, was a Steelworker, but he was not necessarily Walter Burke's choice. Harvey Kitzman, Burke, and the Brewery Workers did not like Steffes either. Steffes “was a bull type of guy.” Sorenson was dumped first and Steffes later.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
20:00
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RAPID DEMISE OF COMMUNIST INFLUENCE IN STATE IUC
: By 1948, the biggest local, 248, had completely changed. Also, many card-carrying Communists got rid of their cards in order to protect their positions. “They seen the handwriting on the wall.... They were smart enough to join with the new crowd.”
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
23:55
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HOW COMMUNIST LEADERSHIP HURT THE STATE IUC
: “It didn't help our image.” It hurt in the legislature and in relations with the WSFL.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
24:30
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POST-WORLD WAR II STRIKES
: Strikes were all for wages; workers wanted to get a share of the companies' war profits. Unfortunately, that led to the Taft-Hartley Act.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
26:05
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WHAT MOTIVATED SCHMITT TO JOIN THE EFFORT TO OUST THE COMMUNIST LEADERSHIP
: Listening to his elders in the labor movement, Schmitt became convinced “that many of these guys were phonies,” and their ideology was not right for American workers.
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Tape/Side
1/2
Time
27:25
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END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
00:30
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THE UNITED ELECTRICAL WORKERS (UE) IN WISCONSIN
: Other than growth within plants it already had, the UE did not grow in Wisconsin after its expulsion from the CIO. Schmitt feels the Allen-Bradley plant in Milwaukee prefers the UE because “I think they're easier to deal with.”
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
02:10
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PURPOSE/FUNCTION OF THE STATE IUC
: Same as State AFL-CIO today. A service organization--legislation, politics, community service, seminars, and so on.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
04:10
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ORGANIZING WORK DONE BY STATE AND CITY BODIES PRIOR TO AFL-CIO MERGER
: Organizing became secondary after the merger because the central bodies could not involve themselves if more than one affiliate was on the ballot. The organizer on the WSFL staff at the time of merger became an assistant to the secretary-treasurer for lobbying. State AFL-CIO will get involved if there is only one union on the ballot.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
06:20
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STATE IUC OFTEN DOES ORGANIZING ON ITS OWN
: Usually a call would come from a local, not an international, and the State IUC would then get involved along with the CIO Regional Office. The Regional Director usually would determine what union a plant should affiliate with. Generally not much competition between CIO unions for the same group of workers. “Today it's different; everybody's hungry for members.”
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
08:20
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STATE IUC AND WSFL LEGISLATIVE CONCERNS
: The Citizens' Non-partisan Conference on Political Education was created in 1948 by the WSFL, and the State IUC affiliated. Schmitt thinks many old WSFL leaders were Republicans. They would support a Republican candidate if given assurances on their bread and butter union issues. The State IUC, however, had many other legislative concerns. WSFL philosophy was to take care of its members as union members only, while the State IUC saw things outside the work-place which affected its members--open housing, education, community service, and so on. When the two organizations merged, the State IUC philosophy seemed to dominate because there were many in WSFL who sympathized with the State IUC approach.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
12:00
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LABOR AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
: Little involvement by the State IUC until about 1950 when several leaders decided that membership in the Democratic Party was in the best interests of the State IUC. State AFL-CIO is faced with a similar decision today. The Democratic Party wants labor to get re-involved, but Schmitt wants to have a voice in the Party, not just a bankroll for the Party. Schmitt was a member of the Wisconsin Democratic Party Administrative Committee and also the Democratic National Committee but quit because “they were debating societies.”
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
14:30
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THE CIO AND EDMUND BOBROWICZ'S FOURTH DISTRICT CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDACY IN 1946
: CIO split in its support. Like the WSFL, non-Communist CIO members supported an independent against Bobrowicz, a Communist who had won the Democratic primary. Resulted in a Republican victory.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
15:30
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STATE IUC LOBBYING AND POLITICAL ACTIVITY
: Brewery Workers, Steelworkers, and Auto Workers all had lobbyists in Madison. When Charles Schultz became State IUC president, he brought more coordination to State IUC lobbying efforts. The Citizens' Non-partisan Conference on Political Education was largely an outgrowth of Labor's Political League in Milwaukee and was not supported very much by WSFL President George Haberman.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
17:40
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ALLIANCES OF WISCONSIN LABOR AND WISCONSIN FARMER ORGANIZATIONS
: The Wisconsin Farmers' Union does not make endorsements, which is a weakness. State IUC worked closely for a time with Kenneth Hones, Farmers' Union president, but his successor, Gilbert Rhode, did not want to get involved in endorsements and fund-raising. The Wisconsin branch of the National Farmers' Organization was much more active, cooperating with labor people in phone banks and fund-raising. Farmers were doing well in the 1970s and lost interest. Recently, however, the State AFL-CIO and those two farm groups have begun to meet again. “It takes a crisis”; the drop in dairy support levels has created that crisis. After a considerable lull in the 1960s, farmers and labor got together again in a successful effort to elect David Obey to Congress in the special election to replace Melvin Laird, who had moved from Congress to President Richard Nixon's cabinet. Schmitt's intentions at that time were “to shake up the Democrats,” along the lines of Minnesota's Farmer-Labor Party. Farm Bureau is antagonistic to labor's interests.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
23:30
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THE RECOGNIZED LEADERS OF THE STATE IUC
: Walter Burke was a key guy who helped get Schmitt involved. Politicians often take a divide-and-conquer attitude; they will try to please large locals because their interests are narrower than those of the State AFL-CIO. Labor is not unified enough.
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Tape/Side
2/1
Time
27:20
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END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 1
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
00:30
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THE INABILITY OF THE LABOR MOVEMENT TO UNITE ON ISSUES
: The labor movement as a whole must concern itself with jobs. Thus, the State AFL-CIO opposes a moratorium on building nuclear power plants and also “ban the can” legislation. Many members, however, will not follow this thinking. Discusses other issues which cause controversy in the labor movement. “As far as I am concerned, jobs is the bottom line.”
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
03:50
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EDUCATION OF THE RANK AND FILE
: The labor movement suffers from a lack of communication. One problem is that so many members live so far from the workplace; another is two-job families. These things impede active participation in the union. State AFL-CIO has attempted to meet this problem by running an annual labor publications seminar. Labor has to compete with television, radio, and newspapers which are not giving the members labor's point of view. Building trades have an even greater communication problem than industrial unions because their members are so scattered. Also, there are many distractions today, like television. Young members are not interested in the struggles which brought them their current wages and benefits, but rather in what they will get in the future. Press exaggerates the power of union bosses. Changes in members' attitudes first became noticeably pronounced about ten years ago.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
08:30
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CHANGES IN COLLECTIVE BARGAINING
: Up to about the early 1960s, the negotiating team would decide to concentrate on strengthening one or two items in a contract. “Today you got to go for all the items; you got to appeal to every age group based on their needs.” The major concerns of the various age groups are: 18-21, money; 21-25, health insurance; 25-30, time off; 30-45, seniority; over 45, pensions. Each group will ask at the time of contract ratification, “What did you get for me?”
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
10:50
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DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE STATE IUC AND WSFL AT THE TIME OF 1958 MERGER
: State IUC younger and had a more progressive ideology. State IUC, by organizing outside the skilled trades, had “a different clientele.” State IUC placed more emphasis on fringe benefits. State IUC much more successful in getting membership involved because the membership was largely concentrated in plants rather than scattered on construction sites. Even though there were many industrial workers in the WSFL, they were not recognized; the leadership was from the building trades. Building trades people have often dominated AFL-CIO bodies because their unions are older and often more experienced, although that is changing.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
15:00
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FACTORS DRAWING THE STATE IUC AND WSFL TOGETHER AT THE TIME OF MERGER
: Problems, especially stagnating membership figures. Politics. Schmitt feels merger was a good idea, and that the perfect combination would be for each international union to have about one million members. That is the only way to provide the services and to have the finances “to take on the giants” and the absentee owners.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
17:25
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WSFL AND STATE IUC PRE-MERGER RAIDING
: Very little raiding because of an understanding. The two organizations got along pretty well, though they differed on several political issues.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
18:00
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WHY MERGER IN WISCONSIN REQUIRED INTERFERENCE BY THE AFL-CIO
: Disagreements on the method of electing officers. State IUC had a one-man, one-vote system (that is, voting strength by per capita payments), but WSFL had a system which gave disproportionate voting strength to small locals. Also some dispute over salaries for officers. The AFL-CIO sent in Peter Schoemann of the Plumbers and Karl Feller of the Brewery Workers who determined that voting should be by per capita payment and also determined what the salaries should be. Also some debate over having a statewide labor newspaper, but the State IUC dropped this demand because of economics.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
21:00
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THE 1950s KOHLER STRIKE
: Local 9 contributed $500 a month for a long time. The State IUC had caravans to Kohler. The plumbers, by refusing to install Kohler fixtures, helped very much in settling the strike, but “they never got the credit they should have gotten.”
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
21:50
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THE EXTENT OF INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATION IN WISCONSIN AT THE TIME OF MERGER
: Very few big plants were unorganized, the Falk Corporation in Milwaukee being the main exception. Falk Corporation has avoided unionism by giving its workers whatever organized workers in the industry are getting. If more employers were that smart, there would be far fewer unions.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
23:05
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OTHER ROADBLOCKS TO STATE IUC AND WSFL MERGER
: Many WSFL people did not trust the State IUC people.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
23:35
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RELATIONS AFTER THE MERGER
: Merger changed the AFL people. Rubbing shoulders with CIO people plus the exit of the old WSFL leadership made the State AFL-CIO more like the old State IUC than the WSFL. Within two years after the merger, there were no more misunderstandings.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
24:40
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MILWAUKEE FTC, WITH ITS SOCIALIST TRADITION, OFTEN AT ODDS WITH THE WSFL AFTER HABERMAN ELECTED PRESIDENT
: “On the whole, AFL in Milwaukee was a hell of a lot more enlightened.” Friedrick and Rudolph Faupl challenged Haberman for the presidency of the WSFL but failed, probably because of the tendency in those days not to unseat the incumbent. “Those days are gone, let me tell you. The incumbency is only as good as you... make it.” The days of long-reigning union leaders are over.
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Tape/Side
2/2
Time
27:10
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END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 2
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
00:00
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INTRODUCTION
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
00:30
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REASONS WHY MERGER TOOK SO LONG IN MILWAUKEE
: Finances. The Milwaukee IUC was broke. Also, the issue of a labor press and the amount of per capita tax. Schmitt led the fight to raise the Milwaukee IUC per capita tax so that the Council could go into the merger with the strength of a healthy treasury. As soon as the per capita tax went up, however, the Council President, Robert Jordan, started “taking a lot of lost time.” Then the merger created a full-time job for the Milwaukee IUC president. Schmitt was opposed to this and pulled the Brewery Workers out of the Milwaukee IUC for six months.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
02:25
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FRED ERCHUL, SECRETARY-TREASURER OF THE MILWAUKEE IUC AND OF THE MILWAUKEE COUNTY LABOR COUNCIL (MCLC)
: Schmitt never trusted Erchul; always felt he was too cozy with the Communists. A likeable guy and a good supporter of Schmitt, but weak.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
03:00
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BREWERY WORKERS RETURN AFTER MERGER OF MILWAUKEE IUC AND MILWAUKEE FTC
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
03:15
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MERGER IN KENOSHA
: Delayed because of the dominance of UAW Local 72. Local 72 had been a big supporter of Herman Steffes. Local 72 had a good leadership, but it was always anti-administration.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
04:35
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SCHMITT, KARL FELLER (PRESIDENT OF THE BREWERY WORKERS), AND THE TEAMSTERS
: Schmitt, always anti-administration in the Brewery Workers International, could never get a majority of convention delegates to go along with him. In 1954, Schmitt preferred charges against Feller and went to see CIO President Walter Reuther, but “he didn't have any guts.” Brewery Workers affiliated with the Teamsters “because Karl Feller made a deal to sell bodies.” If he had agreed to deliver the Brewery Workers, Schmitt could have had the same deal in 1954 when he was offered a regional directorship of the Teamsters at $35,000 per year when he was making only $125 per week. The Teamsters finally got a large segment of the Brewery Workers simply by offering the leadership high paying jobs.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
06:40
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MORE ON RELATIONS AFTER MERGER
: Within two years, Schmitt was elected Executive Vice President of the State AFL-CIO with the help of former WSFL people. The five CIO, eleven AFL division on the State AFL-CIO Executive Board exists yet today in theory, but probably five of the eleven AFL seats are occupied by people from unions affiliated with the AFL-CIO's Industrial Union Department.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
07:55
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SCHMITT'S ELECTION IN 1960
: Charles Schultz was in charge of State AFL-CIO COPE (Committee on Political Education). Several former State IUC people felt he was not doing a very good job. They suggested improvements which he did not make. So they decided to run a candidate against him. They decided to use Schmitt as a stalking horse, but no other viable candidate came along. Howard Pellant (UAW) ran against Schmitt. He was supported by some UAW locals and those AFL locals that did not trust Schmitt.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
10:05
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SCHMITT'S ELECTION TO THE PRESIDENCY, 1966
: Had spent six years traveling around the state doing COPE work and meeting “everybody.” Schmitt decided to seek the office because the other candidate, John Heidenrich (Machinists), was no more entitled to it, and the CIO unions wanted Schmitt to run. In the same election, John Giacomo (USWA) was elected Executive Vice President, the second highest office. “Shows you how the AF of L-CIO terminology was disappearing.” Also, many of the old AFL unions were quite industrial by this time. Schmitt's predecessor, George Haberman, was not eligible to run for re-election because the 1964 convention had instituted mandatory retirement. “I made sure that he was going to leave.” Heidenrich ran against Haberman in 1964, but many CIO unions, including the Brewery Workers and the Steelworkers, did not support him because they felt Schmitt was entitled to the job.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
13:10
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MAIN CONCERNS OF THE STATE AFL-CIO SINCE MERGER
: Political and legislative. Strong supporter of vocational and technical education. Collective bargaining for public employees, getting one of the first such laws in 1958. Very interested in consumer legislation and other areas of legislation which affect the public as a whole, not just workers. “We're a service organization.” Role of the labor movement has not changed, but the program has. If labor only confined itself to collective bargaining, “we'd be dead.” Community participation. The Wisconsin state labor body is one of the better ones. The state labor movement has been a beneficiary of Wisconsin's clean government. Pay for union leaders in Wisconsin is good, but much lower than other states. The same is true for Wisconsin's industrial leaders compared to their counterparts elsewhere.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
18:00
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STRONG AND WEAK SPOTS IN THE WISCONSIN LABOR MOVEMENT
: One weakness is that organization is concentrated in the southeastern part of the state and the Fox River Valley. Servicing the widely scattered membership outside those areas is costly. Outside the paper industry, manufacturing in the central, western, and northern sections is not concentrated in large plants. Many workers in the rural areas also farm on the side and are grateful for whatever wage employment they can get. They are very hard to organize; they are afraid unionization will lead to exit of industry.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
22:00
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IMPACT OF THE EXIT OF THE TEAMSTERS AND UAW FROM STATE AFL-CIO
: There was a loss of per capita tax, but no real division. A good working relationship was maintained with the UAW because of old CIO ties. Similarly, ties with the Teamsters are maintained in part through the construction industry. Predicts if UAW or Teamsters rejoin the AFL-CIO, they will come back to the State AFL-CIO much more quickly and in greater numbers than they will in other states.
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
24:05
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TRENDS IN THE LABOR MOVEMENT
: “There will always be a labor movement, because there will always be employers who want to get by as cheap as possible.” Because of legislative problems in Washington, D.C., and in Madison, the role of unions will probably increase. “It's politicians that really determine activity in unions... America...reacts to a crisis and so do unions. We work much better when we got our cheeks against the wall... I think the corpse has got a hell of a lot much more life than the pallbearers.”
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Tape/Side
3/1
Time
26:35
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END OF INTERVIEW
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