November 29, 1979 Interview Session

Introduction

Carlson's Parents' Occupations, Political Leanings
Scope and Content Note: Father farmed, loaded lumber on lake steamers, was active in organizing longshoremen's union, worked at logging camps. Father an early supporter of Robert M. La Follette, Sr.; received La Follette's Weekly Magazine.

Laurie Carlson's Introduction to Politics
Scope and Content Note: 1922 meeting with Robert M. La Follette, Sr. Anecdote of 1924 Carlson speech to predominantly Stalwart Republican Bayfield high school classmates. Story of 1924 political discussions with Congressman H. H. Peavey's son.

Carlson's College Years
Scope and Content Note: Recalls political discussions with socialists, communists. Political interest rose in 1934, prompted by concern with vocational education. Earned money at University of Wisconsin as driver, sandwich vendor. A “pathological Progressive,” Carlson attended legislative sessions.

Formation of Progressive Party in 1934
Scope and Content Note: Progressives followed lead of La Follettes. Hoover unpopularity had discredited Republican Party, Democrats too conservative. Progressives forged coalitions with Democrats. Carlson supported third party decision. Franklin D. Roosevelt aided Senator Robert M. La Follette, Jr.

Progressive Party Organization in Bayfield County
Scope and Content Note: Incumbent Assemblyman ran for district attorney, Carlson became Assembly candidate. Carlson organized Progressives; a limited candidate slate. County meetings held with Carlson as party spokesman.

Relations Between State and County Progressives
Scope and Content Note: Little initial assistance, three appearances in Bayfield County in 1934 by Senator La Follette. Philip La Follette narrowly won gubernatorial race, Robert M. La Follette, Jr., won U.S. Senate race easily.

1936 Election and Carlson's Campaign Style
Scope and Content Note: Carlson given position in Bayfield County by Thomas F. Davlin of State Highway Commission in 1935; fellow workers formed campaign nucleus. Personal campaign style and fluency in Scandinavian tongues. Recalls discussions with Belle Case La Follette and William Proxmire on effectiveness of personal campaigning.

Carlson Campaign Anecdotes
Scope and Content Note: Milking incident persuaded local Croatian leader; piano-playing ability and irrigation advice won over other key individuals. Carlson's piano became campaign trademark.

End of Tape 1, Side 1

Introduction

Voting Blocs in Bayfield County
Scope and Content Note: County contained Scandinavians, Slovaks, Croatians, often voting in blocs. Anecdote on Carlson's attempts to improve his speech delivery. Differences in “liberalism” of ethnic groups.

Carlson Elected to Assembly in 1936
Scope and Content Note: Carlson resigned job in July 1936. Opponent in Assembly race had WPA patronage; mayor of Bayfield opposed Carlson, as did one of Carlson's petition circulators at last minute. Carlson stressed farm background, arranged photo session at father's experimental plot, campaigned door-to-door.

Introduction to the Legislature
Scope and Content Note: Assisted by Tom Davlin, stayed at Hotel Loraine. Attended bridge games and Thanatopsis Club with Davlin, Harry Sauthoff, William Evjue, and others. Anecdotes about Club participants, mixture of social and political discussion.

Thanatopsis Club Discussions on World War II Entry
Scope and Content Note: Debates between interventionists and isolationists; heated arguments nearly came to blows.

Progressives in the Legislature
Scope and Content Note: Members specialized in particular issues. Progressives forced to build coalitions, especially with some Democrats. Discussion of party discipline; Carlson advocated parliamentary system.

Divisions in Progressive Ranks
Scope and Content Note: Divisions between rural Progressives and Socialists. Charges of ties of CIO with Communist Party and attempts to organize creameries alienated rural Progressives.

Inspiration for Legislative Programs
Scope and Content Note: New Deal drew heavily upon Wisconsin for income tax, Social Security, unemployment relief proposals. State legislators drew upon heritage of La Follette; the Wisconsin Idea. Notes English reform precedents.

Sources of Carlson Legislative Proposals
Scope and Content Note: Ideas for experimental plots, vocational education came from his own experience; did not use the resources of the university much for legislative ideas.

End of Tape 1, Side 2

Introduction

Agricultural Adjustment Act (AAA)
Scope and Content Note: Designed to create scarcity to raise prices for farm goods, forerunner of modern farm programs. Carlson disagreed with Philip La Follette's opposition to AAA.

National Recovery Administration (NRA)
Scope and Content Note: Designed to regulate competition, prices, and wages. Good intentions seen less-well implemented than AAA.

Works Progress Administration (WPA) and Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC)
Scope and Content Note: “Hoe-leaning” image, but provided jobs and dignity. Civilian Conservation Corps helped the young. Government intervention necessary; helped create purchasing power. Early jobs appropriations, Roosevelt's “Christmas present,” provided quickly, but administration chaotic.

State Taxation of Chain Stores
Scope and Content Note: Carlson introduced bill in 1939 based upon Huey Long Louisiana measure. After reading bill, Carlson was no longer enthusiastic; labor groups opposed, bill died in committee. Chain stores defended as price competitive, organized labor feared losses of jobs.

Banking Regulation
Scope and Content Note: Regulation handled largely at federal level; mentions introduction of Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC).

Public Ownership of Utilities
Scope and Content Note: Utilities, along with railroads one of traditional progressive “whipping boys.” Attacked utilities' “spite lines,” unwillingness to serve rural areas. Carlson in 1948 refused utility public relations position, currently opposes utility advertising volume.

State Taxation
Scope and Content Note: Taxation on ability to pay a central principal of “liberalism,” sales tax cited as regressive. Carlson introduced luxury tax bills. Story relating Philip La Follette's belief in an upper limit to feasible taxation, fear of driving out state industry.

The 1937 Special Session of the Legislature
Scope and Content Note: Progressives accused of dictatorial tactics. Response to opposition tying up bills; anecdote from Robert Nixon (Progressive floor leader) on ease of blocking legislation. La Follette aide Thomas Duncan pushed through rules changes, enforced party discipline. Suspension of rules to enforce majority vote, elimination of filibuster.

Defeat of Governor Philip La Follette in 1938
Scope and Content Note: Factors included reaction to the special session, accident and investigation involving Thomas Duncan, firing of Glenn Frank as University of Wisconsin president.

Wisconsin Works Plan
Scope and Content Note: State unable to provide sufficient funds. Philip La Follette supported the works plan to provide worthwhile jobs instead of “boondoggles.” Plan declined after Philip La Follette defeat.

Comparison of Assembly and Senate
Scope and Content Note: Progressives lacked firm majorities in both houses; coalition strategies similar.

Old Age Pensions
Scope and Content Note: Carlson wanted a “moderate” program because of concern over finding revenues. Some conservatives supported the Townsend Plan; Progressives cast as “practical reformers.”

Progressive Reform and Cost Concerns
Scope and Content Note: Carlson viewed Progressives as “conscience” of the times, felt government activity must be focused nationally. State resources limited, but Progressive activities promoted greater federal government activism.

End of Tape 2, Side 1

Introduction

Carlson Farm Mortgage Moratorium Bill
Scope and Content Note: 1939 bill intended to extend moratorium failed to achieve passage. Carlson's intent was to provide a mechanism for the ambitious, resident farm owner.

Progressive Priorities; The “Little Wagner Act”
Scope and Content Note: Progressives saw Wisconsin as a pioneer in labor policy, labor organizations wanted a state bill mirroring the Wagner Act. “Little Wagner Act” passed but repealed in 1939; Carlson story of Assembly speech praised by Andrew Biemiller, in defense of the legislation.

Carlson's Views on Labor Relations
Scope and Content Note: Carlson not a specialist in labor law in the Assembly. Supported enforced mediation or “cooling off” in particular occupations. Fears labor too powerful today and hurting American competitive position.

Wisconsin Development Authority (WDA) and Wisconsin Agricultural Authority (WAA)
Scope and Content Note: WDA seen as a quasi-public corporation in the energy field; Tom Davlin a major advocate. WAA patterned after AAA but more emphasis on price increases through enhanced purchasing power. Measures crippled by Philip La Follette 1938 defeat, lack of funding.

Carlson's Vocational Education Proposals
Scope and Content Note: Carlson took “folk school” concept from Scandinavians for adult education. Bayfield lacked a vocational school. Carlson proposal for county vocational education boards opposed by League of Municipalities and county boards association. Later bill, enacted, had multi-county administration. Opponents resisted out of fear for greater local tax burdens.

Ragweed Bill Introduced by Carlson
Scope and Content Note: A “flag-waving” bill rather than serious legislation. Bayfield a haven for ragweed sufferers, but costs prohibited destruction after ragweed's designation as a noxious weed.

Carlson Sponsorship of Legislative Athletic Scholarships
Scope and Content Note: Carlson an avid sportsman, friend of athletic director Harry Stuhldreher. Bill provided remission of out-of-state tuition for athletes. Activity stemmed from Carlson's athletic interests; played basketball at Northland College for two years. Carlson currently promotes curling.

Formation of the National Progressives of America (NPA)
Scope and Content Note: Carlson viewed third party as “ill-timed” step; favored Roosevelt but followed the La Follette lead. Observations of the Stock Pavilion rally of 1938. Criticism of the “circumcised swastika.” Philip La Follette desired recognition for Wisconsin measures beyond the New Deal.

Divisions Within the Third Party
Scope and Content Note: Carlson, other young Progressives more willing to follow. Election difficulties created by Glenn Frank firing, Duncan accident, opposition to a third term for Governor Philip La Follette. Rural Progressives and businessmen feared Socialist tinge in new NPA.

End of Tape 2, Side 2

Introduction

Factors in Progressive Party Decline
Scope and Content Note: Among Progressive leaders, strong wills and differing degrees of “liberalism”; interest groups included university community, labor, farmers, young activists. Brief coalition under La Follette buckled over isolationism issue, loyalty to Roosevelt, need to exert national influence. Governor-elect Orland Loomis died in 1942. Subsequent shifts by Progressives to Republican or Democratic party.

Progressives' Reliance on La Follette Leadership
Scope and Content Note: Carlson notes reliance on the La Follettes. Philip lost credibility after 1938, later supported Douglas MacArthur. Robert M. La Follette, Jr., altered isolationist position after Pearl Harbor.

Observations on Progressive Party Campaign Organization
Scope and Content Note: Progressives lacked strong organization and money. Campaigns conducted by car or train, labor and political magazines, little radio. Financial supporters included highway lobby, small contributors, but overall amounts low. Outspent by Republicans.

Progressive Party Financial Allocations
Scope and Content Note: Local campaigns run with little state help; used free meeting halls. Carlson's only office a “plunder box.”

World War II and Waning of Impulse for Urgent Reform
Scope and Content Note: Cities employed area rural unemployed during the war; improved individual economic opportunities.

Campaign of 1942 and Carlson's Defeat
Scope and Content Note: Carlson assisted Loomis gubernatorial campaign, ran for reelection at Loomis' insistence. Carlson hesitant because of family economic concerns, wish for “new challenges.”

Reasons for Loomis Win, Carlson Loss
Scope and Content Note: Carlson not unhappy at loss. Had decided not to run for the State Senate. Lost by 75 votes, attributed to absent servicemen and smaller electorate. Loomis won because of incumbent governor Julius Heil's unpopularity. Loomis made appearances in Bayfield County. Possible administrative appointment for Carlson prevented by Loomis death.

Impact of Loomis Death on Progressive Fortunes
Scope and Content Note: Loomis likely to run as Republican in 1944; organized labor already committed to the Democratic party.

1946 Defeat of Senator Robert La Follette, Jr.
Scope and Content Note: La Follette stayed in Washington, D.C. Carlson offered to organize Wisconsin 10th District for La Follette if reimbursed. Felt his organizational skills might have made up the margin of defeat to Joseph McCarthy.

Progressives' Choice of Party Affiliation
Scope and Content Note: Carlson uncertain but supported Senator La Follette in 1946 Republican primary. Retrospectively believes that Progressives should have entered Democratic party in 1944; delay stayed liberal resurgence for twelve years. McCarthy later drove some out of Republican party.

Carlson Assessment of Joseph McCarthy
Scope and Content Note: In early judicial campaigns, Capital Times already opposed to McCarthy. Others saw him as a rising political star; termed by Carlson an “opportunist.”

Effect on Progressives of La Follette 1946 Defeat
Scope and Content Note: Robert La Follette left politics, Philip La Follette remained in political decline. Most Progressives turned to Democratic party, which liberalized a previously conservative party.

End of Interview Session