Title: Oral History Interview with Agnes Lee
Inclusive Dates: 1978 May 11

Creator:

• Lee, Agnes

Call Number: Audio 689A

Quantity: 3 tape recordings

Repository:

Wisconsin Historical Society, Division of Library, Archives, and Museum Collections

Archival Locations:

COLLECTION MAY BE STORED OFF-SITE: see catalog entry to request materials and for additional information.

Wisconsin Historical Society (Map)

Abstract:

Tape-recorded interview conducted May 11, 1978 by Susan Eleuterio with Mrs. Agnes Lee, Deerfield, Wisconsin, concerning nineteenth century Norwegian-American daily life in southern Wisconsin; centering on seasonal farm work, clothing, and foodways.

Language: English

URL to cite for this finding aid: http://digital.library.wisc.edu/1711.dl/wiarchives.uw-whs-audi00689a

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Mrs. Agnes Lee was suggested to me [interviewer Susan Eleuterio] by Mrs. Lois Pieper of Stoughton, Wisconsin. Mrs. Lee's long residence in Deerfield, Dane County, Wisconsin and her knowledge of Norwegian customs and history made her an ideal informant for my study of Norwegian-American daily life in southeastern Wisconsin during the 19th century. In addition, Peter Lee, her husband, was raised on the family farm outside of Deerfield where his grandparents had settled in the 1840's. Therefore, I felt Mrs. Lee would be able to provide social history which would reflect a continuum from the 1840's. An untaped interview was conducted in Mrs. Lee's living room on March 3, 1978. At that time, I asked Mrs. Lee about her family, her husband's family, and questions of a general nature about Norwegian foodways, folk customs, and clothing. Mrs. Lee was born in Detroit, Michigan and later moved to Wisconsin when her father, who was a Lutheran minister was called to serve there. She attended a Lutheran normal school in South Dakota and taught school in a one room school there for several years. She then moved back to Deerfield, marrying Peter Lee.

I conducted this taped interview on May 11, 1978 again at Mrs. Lee's home. Because Mrs. Lee's hearing aid was being repaired, the questions had to be asked in a loud voice and sometimes repeated. Questions centered around seasonal work on Norwegian-American farms, clothing worn in the 19th century, and foodways of Norwegian-Americans. Mrs. Lee brought out a family photograph album and a portion of the interview pertains to pictures in that album. Mrs. Lee is a charming, well versed lady who speaks both Norwegian and English fluently. She is particularly interested in church history and has written a history of the Western Koshkonong Lutheran Congregation. She has also translated a diary written by her mother in Norwegian during the 1870s.

Abstract to the Interview

The tapes for this interview have two tracks: a voice track containing the discussion and a time track containing time announcements at intervals of approximately five seconds. The abstract below lists, in order of discussion, the topics covered on each tape, and indicates the time-marking at which point the beginning of the particular discussion appears.

Thus the researcher by using a tape recorder's fast-forward button may find expeditiously and listen to discrete segments without listening to all of the taped discussion. For instance, the user who wishes to listen to the topic on “Seasonal Work on Norwegian Farms in Wisconsin” should locate the place on the second track of tape one, side one, where the voice announces the 07:10 time-marking (the voice says at this point, “seven minutes, ten seconds”) and at this point switch to the first track to hear the discussion.

The discussion on “Seasonal Work on Norwegian Farms in Wisconsin” continues until approximately 08:30 at which point discussion of the next topic (“Tobacco Raising in Dane County”) begins.

Notice that in most cases sentences beneath each headline explain more about the contents of the topic. For example the sentences underneath “Seasonal Work on Norwegian Farms in Wisconsin” give further details on what appears on the tape between 07:10 and 08:30.

The abstract is designed to provide only a brief outline of the content of the tapes and cannot serve as a substitute for listening to them. However, the abstract will help the researcher easily locate distinct topics and discussions among the many minutes of commentary.

Acquisition Information

Accession Number: M78-239

Processing Information

Finding aid prepared by Susan Eleuterio, December 10, 1978.

Audio 689A Tape/Side   1/1 Time   00:00	Introduction
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   00:50	Family Genealogy and History Scope and Content Note: Mrs. Lee gives names of her parents, their birthplaces, grandparents.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   05:35	Mrs. Lee's Background Scope and Content Note: Mrs. Lee's birthplace, occupations, residences.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   07:10	Seasonal Work on Norwegian Farms in Wisconsin Scope and Content Note: Spring spent tilling land and getting tobacco beds ready.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   08:30	Tobacco Raising in Dane County Scope and Content Note: After grain crops destroyed by chinch bugs, tobacco adopted by Norwegian farmers. Tobacco graded, the best used for wrappers. Some farmers became wealthy from raising this crop. Not grown in Norway.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   11:05	Mr. Lee's Family Wheat Production Scope and Content Note: Lees grew only a little wheat, ground at local mill and made into white flour, bran, and cracked wheat. Describes how cracked wheat was cooked.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   12:10	Mr. Lee Stops Raising Tobacco Scope and Content Note: Tobacco a difficult crop because of the hand labor involved. Mr. Lee stopped raising it and turned to dairying.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   12:55	Mr. Lee's Parents Have Diversified Farm Scope and Content Note: Elder Lees raised grain crops and had a dairy herd. Took care of own milk until creameries arrived in the late 1800's.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   13:55	Types of Grain Scope and Content Note: Mr. Lee attended agriculture school for two winter terms and began raising alfalfa as a result. Also grew barley, oats, and corn. The latter the most important crop. Since alfalfa needs a sweet soil they hauled lime onto the land which had been used for tobacco.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   15:30	Depression Bread Scope and Content Note: During the depression women were told to make bread from barley rather than wheat. Most women unhappy about this because they liked white, fluffy bread. The Lees added more yeast than usual and were able to make good bread of barley and a little wheat flour.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   16:50	Seasonal Work -Summer Scope and Content Note: Summer was taken up with haying and the planting of late crops. Good machinery to do the work but shocks of grain tied by hand. Combines later used to thresh the grain.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   18:05	Old Methods of Farm Work Scope and Content Note: All work done by hand in the old days. Cradles used to cut the grain and threshing done to separate the grain from chaff. Grain beaten with a flail on the barn floor. Treadmill powered by oxen later used for this.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   20:15	Women's Work during the Summer Scope and Content Note: Women worked in the garden and did the berrying; also preserved much fruit. Used much sugar to keep the fruit and stored it in stone crocks in a cool place. They made pickles and sauerkraut. A kind of sour cabbage was made in Norway which is like sauerkraut.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   22:00	Children's Chores Scope and Content Note: Children helped with a little of everything. As young children they mostly helped their mother, as they grew older they helped with barn chores.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   22:20	Types of Vegetables Grown Scope and Content Note: They grew carrots and onions. Lettuce a later innovation, as were tomatoes which were new to Norwegians. Mrs. Lee's grandmother disappointed with first tomato because she expected it to be sweet like a fruit. Also grew cabbage, turnips, and rutabagas. Rutabagas a favorite in northern Norway as a substitute for potatoes which would not grow in the cold climate. Corn was another innovation. Learned to use cornmeal for mush and johnny cake.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   25:35	Preservation of Food Scope and Content Note: Food stored in a vegetable cellar located outside. Carrots stored in sand. Fresh vegetables not available all year and during the late winter the family relied on potatoes for the most part.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   27:00	Special Beverages for Haying Time Scope and Content Note: Whey was a popular drink during any hot time of the year when heavy work was done. Mr. Lee's father also made homemade beer for these times. It was somewhat sweet and had quite a bit of body.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   00:00	Introduction to second part of Tape 1, Side 1
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   00:30	Beer for Harvest Time Scope and Content Note: Beer was the favorite cool drink at harvest time.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   01:05	Norwegian Clothes Too Hot for American Climate Scope and Content Note: People brought heavy woolen clothing from Norway but found it too warm. Everyday clothes made at home. Work clothes made from store-bought denim. Women's clothes made from calico, using old clothing as a pattern. Skirts made from two or three lengths of material which was gathered at the top and hemmed at the bottom. Bustles not used on everyday clothes.
Tape/Side   1/1 Time   03:00	End of Tape
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   00:00	Introduction
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   00:35	Good Clothes for Sunday Scope and Content Note: Best clothes for Sunday were always made of black material. Older women wore little caps trimmed with lace and ribbons.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   01:15	Mrs. Lee Explains Pictures in a Family Album Scope and Content Note: Mrs. Lee uses the pictures to demonstrate clothing and hair styles.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   04:30	Best Clothes Are Made by a Dressmaker Scope and Content Note: Family hired dressmaker to come every spring and make best dresses for the family. She also came in the fall for the same reason. Mrs. Lee's mother made their everyday clothes. They received a new dress at Christmas time as well.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   05:10	Discusses Picture of Husband's Uncle Scope and Content Note: Uncle was a Lutheran pastor and professor. He wore a long black gown with a white ruff at the neck as in Norway.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   06:00	Children's Clothing Scope and Content Note: Boys wore dresses or suits to the knee called “Russian suits.” Underneath these they wore bloomers or pants. Their clothing was homemade.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   07:00	Norwegian Costume Scope and Content Note: Picture was of Hardanger costume. This was worn for dress-up for going to church or other special occasions.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   08:20	Children's Clothing Scope and Content Note: Little girls dresses were worn halfway down the leg with a flounce at the bottom.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   08:35	Newcomers Scope and Content Note: New settlers were called Newcomers. Shows photograph of first Norwegian family to settle in the town of Deerfield.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   10:30	Picture Of Husband as a Twelve Year Old Scope and Content Note: Photographed with his sister. Photographer placed something against her neck so that she could not move. Basques (top portion of dress) were tightly fitted.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   11:50	Mourning Cards Scope and Content Note: When people died, cards were sent out to friends to put in their photo albums. These were trimmed in black and gold.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   12:55	Home Sewing Scope and Content Note: Lace collars made at home. Patterns came from looking at finished products others had made. Coats were homemade. Mrs. Lee's grandmother got a sewing machine when Mrs. Lee's mother was ten. It was turned by a crank and sat on the table. Some material was woven at home. Norwegians favored primary colors - mostly blues and reds.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   16:55	Photo Album Scope and Content Note: Album was made of leather and handed down. (End of photos at 17:00.)
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   17:10	Domestic Work Scope and Content Note: Washing usually done on Monday; chores all done by hand and usually on certain days. Clothes hung on bushes if there was not enough line.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   19:00	People Make Their Own Soap Scope and Content Note: Mrs. Lee's husband's grandmother made her own lye and soap. Put wood ashes in a big barrel and set it up high so the water could run through. They saved fat scraps from butchering and cooking and put these in a kettle in the yard. This was stirred over a fire. Some was left soft and could be spooned out. For hard soap, the mixture was cooked a little longer, poured in boxes and let sit until it hardened. Then it was cut up. Soap usually made in the fall because there were fat scraps left over from the meat eaten during the summer. Sometimes people got together to make soap.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   21:10	Butchering Done in the Fall Scope and Content Note: Butchering had to be done during cold weather because of the lack of refrigeration. (Mrs. Lee got out a book about old-time things at this point.)
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   22:40	Mr. Lee's Parents Have a Summer Kitchen Scope and Content Note: Families either built on a shanty to the main house or a separate one near the house, used for all cooking during the summer. Sometimes an old stove was used, if not, main stove moved into shanty for the summer. When they were preserving foods, the stove was kept going all day.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   24:15	Bread Baking Scope and Content Note: Bread was baked in the latter part of the week, sometimes twice a week. Usually made five loaves at a time. One time Mrs. Lee baked twenty loaves in one week because her brother's children were visiting. Made both white and whole wheat bread. Yeast came in cakes dusted with cornmeal. This was dissolved and made into a sponge. The sponge was put in a big pan and let rise overnight. In the morning, the rest of the ingredients were added.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   27:00	Mrs. Lee Discusses Book About Old Methods Scope and Content Note: Said stories in book reminded her of teaching in a one room school.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   00:00	Introduction to second part of Tape 2, Side 1
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   00:05	Mrs. Lee Talks About Discipline in One Room Schools Scope and Content Note: Farm children couldn't be kept after school because they had chores to do; usually good but might be kept in at recess if they misbehaved.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   01:40	Housecleaning Scope and Content Note: Major housecleaning done twice a year in the fall and the spring. Mrs. Lee's mother's family only had one room so they must have cleaned every day. Some families didn't care much about cleaning; others thought it was important. Bedding aired during spring cleaning.
Tape/Side   2/1 Time   03:15	End of Tape
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   00:00	Introduction
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   00:35	Butter Making Scope and Content Note: Cream was kept at home until the creameries started. Family made butter, and also made buttermilk to drink.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   01:15	Cottage Cheese Scope and Content Note: Extra milk left to sour on the back of the stove. When the milk separated, grandmother would ladle out the curds and put them in a dish. They were mixed with cream and a little salt.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   02:10	Whey Cheese Scope and Content Note: The whey left over from the soured milk was boiled until it could be spooned up. Brown colored, was used as a spread on bread.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   03:45	Butter Scope and Content Note: Butter stored in stone crocks in the cellar. Made all year round; extra butter sold in town.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   05:25	Ironing Scope and Content Note: Used flat irons held with pad since handles too hot to touch. Later handles made separately. Ironing was a hot job especially with a wood-burning cook stove.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   07:05	Meals Scope and Content Note: Big meal eaten at noon; breakfast was also a hearty meal. Family got up at 5 or 6 o'clock. Mrs. Lee's husband did his chores before breakfast but sometimes took a piece of bread first. Breakfast foods included mush - oatmeal, cracked wheat, or cream of wheat; eggs; bacon or salt pork; sometimes pancakes. Eggs were usually fried. Lunches for school were sandwiches, fruit, and cake or cookies. Noonday dinner was always meat and potatoes, usually pork.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   12:15	Pork Scope and Content Note: Pork was salted. Butchered hogs were cut into chops and roasts and some was ground for sausage. Pork chops were fried and put in a stone crock sealed with lard. Roasts were also preserved this way. Salt pork was put in a brine of salt and water. One recipe called for brown sugar, salt, water, and saltpeter. Salt pork was fried and made with a gravy of milk, flour, and fat. Sometime fried salt pork was eaten at breakfast with the milk gravy on toast.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   14:35	Dinner Scope and Content Note: Family ate a lot of vegetables. Carrots and rutabagas were cooked and mashed together. Turnips were boiled or mashed and eaten with butter. Always had lots of canned tomatoes.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   16:00	Beverages Scope and Content Note: Some people always used coffee. The Lees drank milk, tea, or water.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   16:40	Supper Menu Scope and Content Note: In the summer, they often had cold meat for supper. Also ate apple, strawberry, and raspberry sauce. Usually had fried or creamed potatoes as well. The Lees used some Norwegian foods but gradually learned American recipes as well.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   17:45	Mush Scope and Content Note: Grot or mush was made of cornmeal in America. They would make a lot of it and leave some overnight to slice and fry the next day. This was eaten with syrup or sorghum on it.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   18:20	Sorghum Scope and Content Note: Raised their own sorghum. Did not have maple sugar trees but had sorghum mills around. Took stalks to be cut up, then cooked them. Used in ginger bread, cookies, and for flavoring beans.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   19:15	Extra Food-Snacks Scope and Content Note: Didn't have snacks as we know them today. At harvest time, the men always got a lunch in the morning and afternoon, including a cool drink of whey, beer, water, or buttermilk. Lunches were sandwiches, cake, cookies. Kept the women busy because as soon as breakfast was finished, they would make lunch and carry it out to the fields.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   20:40	Cookies Scope and Content Note: Always made one of two kinds of cookies, sugar or sorghum (molasses). Cookies kept in a big jar and children were allowed to snack on them.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   21:15	Spinning and Weaving Scope and Content Note: Norwegians brought their spinning wheels with them to America but did less spinning and little weaving here. Mrs. Lee's grandmother kept sheep and spun the wool but did not weave cloth. She made stockings from the spun wool. Later, an elderly woman was hired to knit for the family. They dyed their own wool, used sumac for gray.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   22:40	Stockings and Shoes Scope and Content Note: Children and women's stockings were usually black. Men wore different colored stockings. A cobbler came around a couple times a year to make shoes. Women wore buttoned shoes, later laced shoes. Early shoes were clumsy.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   23:55	Julebukking Scope and Content Note: Mrs. Lee did not remember if she went julebukking, but others did. They dressed up in anything that looked crazy. Usually walked from house to house and sang songs in Norwegian. Neighbors had to guess identities. Some covered their faces with real masks.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   28:00	Norwegian Folk Creatures Scope and Content Note: Grandparents knew all the old superstitions about trolls, nisse, and little elves. Her father would tell the story of the three billy goats gruff. It was called “De Tre Bukken Brusse.” Her father would dramatize it. People used to say that if you didn't treat the nisse right they would punish you. At Christmas Eve a special bowl of Christmas rice was set out for the nisse. The family ate a special grot that night as well.
Tape/Side   3/1 Time   30:15	End of Interview