September 22 and 23, 1981 Interview

INTRODUCTION

MEYERS' DUTIES UPON TRANSFER TO INTERNATIONAL HEADQUARTERS IN THE MID-1950s
Scope and Content Note: Suffridge gave him no specific instructions, but assumed Meyers would produce organizing literature, particularly literature useful for training organizers. Organized seminars for organizers. Also, Meyers ran “the Research Department obliquely” until Ben Seligman became Research Director.

JAMES A. SUFFRIDGE SCHOLARSHIP FUND
Scope and Content Note: Meyers helped set this up and until his retirement made sure blacks received some of the scholarships.

THE ADVOCATE AND WILLIAM MAGUIRE
Scope and Content Note: Maguire, as editor, was “employer-minded in his concepts.” His articles tended to stress methods of increasing sales for the employers. Maguire had been hired by Coulter. He had never been a clerk and knew little of the labor movement. Maguire edited the newspaper until 1951, when he was made an administrative assistant, and a more talented man became editor. Maguire entered Formica's conspiracy to replace the RCIA's Protestant leadership with Catholics. When Suffridge discovered the conspiracy, Maguire made a full confession and was forgiven. The new editor also was in cahoots with Formica and was forgiven.

THE ADVOCATE AND MEYERS
Scope and Content Note: Meyers wrote most of the editorials from about 1958 to 1968. Meyers had the ideas, and Stan Seganish, a talented writer and illustrator, brought them to life in pamphlets and The Advocate.

ANECDOTE WHICH ILLUSTRATES HOW MEYERS' INFLUENCE DECLINED WHEN HOUSEWRIGHT BECAME PRESIDENT
Scope and Content Note: The vice-presidents took turns writing editorials for The Advocate. Vice-President William McGrath, Housewright's administrative assistant, wrote an editorial entitled “Can the Clerks Stand Prosperity,” which Seganish and Meyers thought would hurt the organzation in future contract negotiations. Meyers took the editorial to Housewright and McGrath, and McGrath told him he had no business second guessing. After that, all editorials had to be cleared through McGrath, and Seganish was given a hard time until he could no longer take it and quit. Meyers himself was in no position financially to quit.

MONITOR RADIO PROGRAM MESSAGES
Scope and Content Note: Meyers was in charge of this project, which cost approximately $800,000 a year. This project was quite popular, especially among other unions which felt these messages were helping them as well as the RCIA. $80,000 worth of advertisinq during an All-Star baseball game.

END OF TAPE 9, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

BEN CROSSLER AS DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZATION
Scope and Content Note: A business school graduate, spent most of his time reviewing the expense reports of the organizers. Meyers was always placed in charge of major organizing efforts. Suffridge appointed Crossler Director of Organization as an interim measure before firing him; Meyers, without the title, was actually more the Director of Organization than was Crossler. “I was minister without portfolio.”

MEYERS' RELATIONSHIP WITH SEGANISH
Scope and Content Note: Seganish was grateful. He came to Meyers as a talented technician and left ten years later as “a knowledgeable labor man.” Seganish went on to edit six other labor magazines, employing four writers. Tragically, Seganish is almost totally blind today. Shortly after leaving the RCIA, Seganish had to have an expensive operation, but Secretary-Treasurer Maguire stated his hospitalization insurance would not cover the operation, even though Seganish had considerable unused vacation. Meyers, as a trustee of the union, suggested Maguire ought to reconsider, and he did.

MEYERS AND RESEARCH DIRECTOR SELIGMAN
Scope and Content Note: Meyers reviewed the proofs for Modern Trends in Economics, which Seligman wrote while working for the RCIA.

MEYERS AND ORGANIZATION DRECTOR CROSSLER
Scope and Content Note: Crossler was hostile toward Meyers, but was happy for any help and advice Meyers gave because “he had no answers.” Crossler avoided responsibility. Crossler was under the false impression that Suffridge had brought him to International headquarters as a probable successor.

BEN CROSSLER
Scope and Content Note: As he would do later with others, Suffridge brought Crossler in as Director of Organization, promoted him to chief administrative assistant, and then ignored him until he resigned. As secretary-treasurer of the California Clerks Council, Crossler provided friendship to local officers, but not leadership. He did have considerable talent for taking notes during negotiations. Crossler's ability to make friends with local officers, however, was a threat to Suffridge.

SUFFRIDGE'S RELATIONSHIP WITH JIM HOUSEWRIGHT
Scope and Content Note: Housewright disliked Suffridge, but Suffridge nevertheless chose him as his successor in part because he was Protestant, and Suffridge “believed that the particular group most representative of the people in the country should produce the head of the organization.” From the time Suffridge dumped Vernon Housewright as Secretary-Treasurer, Jim Housewright began purposely to build a following, hiring only those people who would be personally loyal to him.

DONALD CARTER, CALIFORMA DIRECTOR AND DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH
Scope and Content Note: Carter was originally hired by Jim Housewright as one of his loyal followers. When Crossler was getting too much of a following in California, Suffridge made Carter California Director. Carter was sent to California as a strong man from the International but California had a tradition of independence. Carter had a sister who was nearly paralyzed, and Joe DeSilva gave her a job. When DeSilva and others challenged the Housewright slate in 1968, Carter was beholden to DeSilva and supported him. Carter was then recalled to headquarters and switched sides. At the International, he was stationed near Meyers with instructions to learn from him. When Seligman left the RCIA, Carter became titular head of the Research Department.

END OF TAPE 9, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

BACKGROUND ON THE FORMICA AFFAIR
Scope and Content Note: Suffridge accepted Maguire's confession, and forgave him because Maguire, unlike Formica, was not interested in running for president. Shortly before the effort to clean up Cleveland was launched, Suffridge called an Executive Board meeting and arranged to have Meyers room with Formica. Meyers and Formica had a common interest - long battles against the May Company. At this meeting, however, Formica was uncomfortable and untalkative. Suffridge asked if their rooming together had revealed anything, and Meyers did not know what he was talking about. Suffridge then explained that Formica was under the control of the Meat Cutters, and the Teamsters, that he was drawing several salaries and expense accounts, and that he was trying to put together enough support to defeat Suffridge at the next election. While the union had other trouble spots at the time, Suffridge explained the urgency of this situation since the union was in danger of losing the whole state of Ohio. Meyers was shocked at the news and expressed no enthusiasm for the pending clean-up operation.

MEYERS SENT TO BOSTON WHEN THE CLEVELAND CLEAN UP BEGAN
Scope and Content Note: Because Meyers was unenthusiastic and because he was not necessarily a clean-up man, Suffridge sent him to Boston to explain to Formica's Catholic colleagues there what was about to happen, and to check out their loyalty to the International in case the situation got out of hand. The Boston people explained that they had nothing against Meyers, just against Suffridge and Vernon Housewright.

WHEN THINGS GOT ROUGH IN CLEVELAND, HOWEVER, MEYERS WAS SENT IN TO TAKE CHARGE

THE FORMICA CHALLENGE TO SUFFRIDGE WAS BASED STRICTLY ON RELIGIOUS BIAS

EDWARD SHAY, MEYERS' PREDECESSOR, EASTERN DIRECTOR
Scope and Content Note: A genial Irishman who was ineffective. The organization was crumbling around him. When the Executive Board of the 1,200-member Pharmacy local in Boston went back to work the second day of a strike it called, Suffridge could not reach Shay and had to send Meyers into the situation. After that, Suffridge called for Shay's resignation. Shay was well liked and Meyers, at first, was resented, but that passed.

MEYERS' RELATIONSHIP WITH VERNON HOUSEWRIGHT
Scope and Content Note: Meyers had little respect for Housewright's labor intelligence, but they were friends on a personal level. As long as Housewright did not interfere with Meyers' work, they got along. Meyers did not want to go to International headquarters at Lafayette because he was sure his intolerance for Housewright's opinions would get him in trouble.

SUFFRIDGE'S RELATIONSHIP WITH VERNON HOUSEWRIGHT
Scope and Content Note: The two men had teenage daughters, and Housewright's daughter bragged that her father, being president, was more important. “And Suffridge's wife heard about it....It's unbelievable.”

END OF TAPE 10, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

VERNON HOUSEWRIGHT'S RESIGNATI0N
Scope and Content Note: Housewright had been promised the presidency by C.C. Coulter. Desepte, the president before Suffridge, had been an old man, “exiled to San Francisco” at $5O per week: he spent all his time visiting locals and reminiscing. Suffridge felt Housewright could do no worse than that; so he kept Coulter's promise. Housewright was popular in the midwest; genial and sociable. When Suffridge decided to dump Housewright, he had RCIA attorney Sol Lippman carry the news to Meyers. “It made me sick.” Suffridge wanted the Executive Board to request Housewright's resignation. The Board was weak and looked to Meyers for direction; and Meyers had been given a direct order from Suffridge. “A very, very unpleasant chore.” Meyers was angered and took a month's vacation just prior to the 1959 convention.

MEYERS' OPPOSITION TO A DUES INCREASE AT THE 1959 CONVENTION
Scope and Content Note: Meyers opposed the dues increase on the floor of the convention, claiming this would be a hardship on organized department store workers because the union had not yet organized most department store workers. Also, the increase was purely a way for local officers to get higher dues and blame it on the International. Because the local officers supported the increase and Suffridge had the votes, he did not complain of Meyers' opposition.

MORE ON VERNON HOUSEWRIGHT'S RESIGNATION
Scope and Content Note: Meyers had the choice either of carrying out Suffridge's wishes in regard to forcing Housewright's resignation, or of resigning. The question arose, however, “for whom was I resigning?” -- for Housewright, who, for example, made an anti-semitic remark about the management of the Jewel Tea Company. The Executive Board voted unanimously in favor of the motion for Housewright's resignation. Suffridge and Meyers talked it over with Housewright. “We talked cold turkey. We said, 'The organization is growing, and it needs a different kind of leadership....It needs somebody that can pull his weight in certain things....'” They pointed out to Housewright that he would lose if he decided to take the issue to the convention floor, and that he would then be in a poor negotiating position vis-a-vis a pension. Housewright initially refused to resign, but shortly changed his mind. “I thought it was rather an absurd situation.” Housewright retired to Florida, got into the real estate business, and in time became fast friends with Suffridge again.

JIM HOUSEWRIGHT'S NEPOTISM
Scope and Content Note: He “was a totally political character.” He put all his relatives on the payroll. In contrast, Meyers' wife did considerable volunteer organizing and never was on the payroll.

JIM HOUSEWRIGHT MADE A DEAL WITH MAQUIRE THAT HE WOULD ONLY SERVE FOR A CERTAIN TIME AS SECRETARY-TREASURER

ANECDOTE ABOUT SUFFRIDGE'S OFFER TO NOMINATE RICHARD NIXON FOR VICE-PRESIDENT IN 1952
Scope and Content Note: Lippman approached Meyers, saying Suffridge wanted the Executive Board's approval to accept the invitation to nominate Nixon. Meyers refused, and the rest of the Executive Board went along with Meyers. Meyers told Lippman that the Board not only would not approve, but might even pass a motion against the idea if Suffridge persisted.

PRESIDENT NIXON'S VISIT TO RCIA HEADQUARTERS
Scope and Content Note: Suffridge “got even” later by bringing Nixon to headquarters. Nixon claimed he wanted to get closer to the labor movement. Suffridge took him from office to office, where Nixon shook hands for photographers. Nixon sat in on the Executive Board meeting, between Housewright and Suffridge, and was presented with an honorary membership. In gratitude for the award, Nixon wished the RCIA continued growth, and Meyers responded that an aid toward that end might be an Executive Order directing government commissaries to deal with the RCIA. Jay Foreman saw that Meyers' quip appeared in The Advocate.

MAKING PRESIDENT THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF RCIA
Scope and Content Note: Legitimate reasons. It was “old-fashioned” to have the Secretary-Treasurer as chief executive officer.

MAGUIRE SUCCEEDS VERNON HOUSEWRIGHT AS SECRETARY-TREASURER

END OF TAPE 10, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

PETER HALL AS SECRETARY-TREASURER, SOUTHERN DIRECTOR, AND DIRECTOR OF ORGANIZING
Scope and Content Note: Jim Housewright had made a deal with southerner Peter Hall to hold the office of Secretary-Treasurer for a certain time and then retire. He made similar deals with people from other parts of the country in order to consolidate his power. Hall “was a good organizer. He was clever, cunning, intelligent, one hell of a poker player, but he knew no labor history, and very little about labor in general.” A realist. He would check on the job his organizers were doing by personally checking with employees in the stores. Meyers was responsible for Hall becoming Southern Director. “When Pete Hall went on the radio for 30 minutes, I worked for a week writing his speech. But when he went on the radio, he was one of the most credible speakers I had ever heard....He was an asset.” Came to headquarters as Director of Organization. He kept good books on organizers' progress.

MEYERS' RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS ORGANIZERS
Scope and Content Note: As a division director, Meyers tended to ignore unproductive organizers until he had time to get rid of them.

MORE ON PETER HALL AS ORGANIZATION DIRECTOR
Scope and Content Note: Leaned on Meyers for literature, techniques, and methods.

ANECDOTE ABOUT MEYERS AVOIDING TOM BEST'S TESTIMONIAL SO AS NOT TO UPSTAGE PRESIDENT JIM HOUSEWRIGHT
Scope and Content Note: Meyers claimed his wife was too ill. Wrote Housewright's speech.

WROTE PETER HALL'S RETIREMENT SPEECH BUT DID NOT ATTEND THE DINNER

EVENTUALLY JIM HOUSEWRIGHT WAS ABLE TO FILL THE EXECUTIVE BOARD WITH “HOUSEWRIGHT MEN”

MICHAEL HARRINGTON'S THE RETAIL CLERKS
Scope and Content Note: His estimate, that Suffridge had not abused the great powers given to him by the constitution, was an opinion shared with Meyers. His prediction that the RCIA would become the largest union in the-AFL-CIO was all his own. “...A pretty good independent scholar and observer....” Harrington complaining to Meyers of the lack of democracy in Joe DeSilva's Local 770, but Meyers pointed out the freedom DeSilva, through organizing and negotiations, had won for his members in their work places.

JOHN HALETSKY AND THE 1968 RCIA ELECTION
Scope and Content Note: University of Wisconsin School for Workers Director “Bob Ozanne characterized the rebellion of the larger locals as 'the revolt of the barons.'” “It seemed like a logical development.” Haletsky, who challenged Housewright for the presidency, was a capable man. Meyers' “right arm in the Eastern Division.” During the campaign, DeSilva was “a very heavy load on Haletsky's back.” Meyers had recommended Haletsky as his replacement as Eastern Director, but Haletsky had refused because his local salary was larger.

SUFFRIDGE HAD LED MURRAY PLOPPER TO BELIEVE HE WOULD BECOME PRESIDENT
Scope and Content Note: Plopper, a good negotiator, knew little of the trade union movement. He was Jewish, and Suffridge made conversion to Protestantism a condition of Plopper's becoming president. Plopper was ignorant about religion and did not take Suffridge's condition seriously. Up to the day of Suffridge's expected retirement announcement, Plopper thought the announcement would carry a recommendation that he succeed. Five minutes before the Executive Board meeting at which Suffridge's retirement announcement was expected, Maguire informed Meyers that Suffridge had changed his mind and wanted the Board to reject his offer to retire.

END OF TAPE 11, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

MORE ON PLOPPER'S FAILURE TO BECOME PRESIDENT
Scope and Content Note: Plopper had been going around making deals as to whom he would appoint to various positions after becoming president. Meyers felt Plopper should be told of Suffridge's intentions before the meeting and did inform him. At the meeting, Meyers moved and Maguire seconded a motion not to accept Suffridge's resignation; motion passed unanimously, with Plopper voting in favor. Plopper, who was Suffridge's chief administrative assistant, became bitter, and Suffridge ordered that no communications be sent to him. A few weeks later, Plopper resigned.

THE RCIA PENSION PLAN WAS THE MAIN ISSUE IN THE 1968 ELECTION CONTEST
Scope and Content Note: The concept of a pension plan for staff was brought up at the 1947 convention. Meyers opposed it on the grounds that the union had not yet bargained pensions for the membership. Suffridge met this argument by agreeing to a membership referendum on the question. At the 1963 convention, Bill Olwell, now a vice president, and other young people complained of the 15-year vesting provision of the pension plan, wanting to make it only ten years. Meyers pled the case of the “builders of the union,” and counseled patience for a few years. “I pulled Suffridge's bacon out of the fire, but I didn't put the fire out.” In 1968 then, “the barons who were looking for power used that as their number one argument.”

DEFEATING THE OPPOSITION SLATE IN 1968 - HERSCHEL WOMACK AND DETROIT
Scope and Content Note: Herschel Womack was president of DeSilva's local 770 until DeSilva, “fired” him. Womack came to Meyers for a job as organizer. Meyers gave him a job and later gave him a charter to organize department store workers in Los Angeles, taking that jurisdiction from DeSilva who had pretty much ignored department store workers. Later, when Meyers finished cleaning up Detroit, he left Womack in charge. Womack built the Detroit local from 11,000 members to 30,000, rivaling the size of DeSilva's local. Despite what DeSilva had done to him and what Meyers had done for him, Womack made a pact with DeSilva to form a large block of votes for the opposition in the 1968 election. These two large locals, plus Haletsky's good reputation back East, made for a formidable opposition. However, Housewright sent strong man Jack Loveall to Detroit who dealt with Horace Brown, who held the number two position in the local. Brown, together with most of the staff, confronted Womack. Womack then asked Meyers to author for him a letter of repudiation. “That, to a very large extent, torpedoed the DeSilva plan.

DeSILVA, THE MAIN CHARACTER IN THE 1968 OPPOSITION
Scope and Content Note: “A talented and capable leader of a primitive sort.”

ANECDOTE ABOUT DeSILVA'S FAILURE TO FOLLOW UP ON A LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT STORE ORGANIZING DRIVE
Scope and Content Note: Meyers gave DeSilva a department store charter and $20,000 to launch a campaign. When Meyers returned a few months later, the campaign had been allowed to die, and DeSilva had doubled his own salary and increased that of the other local officers. Meyers accused him of betrayal, and DeSilva claimed he was going blind, and would not be able to work within a year - a total fabrication. DeSilva was a cunning, capable person.

END OF TAPE 11, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

JOE DeSILVA
Scope and Content Note: His poor English was one reason he did not run for president himself. He had a lot of power in Los Angeles, even with the press. “A complex character.” His pluses were greater than his minuses.

OPPOSITION IN 1968 WAS LITERALLY A “REVOLT OF THE BARONS”
Scope and Content Note: Men with big locals who thought they could take over the International. These locals in large measure had “been either built up by us, created by us, or saved from destruction by us.” Al Akman, Baltimore, was an honest and able man who was captivated by DeSilva.

ANECDOTE ABOUT SUFFRIDGE NEAR BLUNDER DURING THE 1968 RCIA ELECTION CAMPAIGN
Scope and Content Note: Suffridge suggested to Meyers that he tell Akman he had all his people lined up against him. Meyers said this was foolish; Akman was too smart to fall for such a deception. This angered Suffridge.

1968 ELECTION ISSUES - THE COUNTRY CLUB
Scope and Content Note: Other than the pension issue, none were worthy of consideration. The opposition was “unscrupulous,” charging the Executive Board with purchasing a country club at $600,000 for themselves. The Washington Daily News, “a rag,” printed the story on the front page. Actually, the union had loaned the $600,000 at prevailing rates and purchased three memberships for the purpose of entertaining friendly employers.

AFTER WINNING THE ELECTION, THE ADMINISTRATION INSTITUTED THE TEN-YEAR VESTING WHICH THE OPPOSITION HAD MADE SUCH AN ISSUE

OPPOSITION DEMAND THAT HALF THE EXECUTIVE BOARD CONSIST OF LOCAL OFFICERS
Scope and Content Note: The administration slate countered that this would be all right, provided no one took more than one salary.

MEYERS' SUPPORT WAS NOT SOLICITED BY THE OPPOSITION
Scope and Content Note: No one would have thought of it, but Meyers remained on speaking terms with several who were in the opposition.

SUFFRIDGE'S SELECTION OF JIM HOUSEWRIGHT AS HIS SUCCESSOR
Scope and Content Note: Housewright was clever and an able man at making friends. He had been able to get many of his people jobs at International headquarters.

SUFFRIDGE EXPECTED HOUSEWRIGHT TO BE MORE COMPLIANT AS PRESIDENT
Scope and Content Note: “He was sorely and bitterly disappointed.”

HOW HOUSEWRIGHT REPLACED SUFFRIDGE ON THE AFL-CIO EXECUTIVE COUNCIL
Scope and Content Note: Housewright could have simply explained how this seat on the CIO Executive Council would add to his prestige as president and also the prestige of the organization. Instead, at an Executive Board meeting, he had the vice-presidents (except Meyers and Don Carter) one by one get up and say how they were getting pressure from locals to have the president, not the president emeritus on the Council. Suffridge, “with some contempt,” told Housewright this method was unnecessary, that he would have vacated the seat voluntarily if asked.

WHY SUFFRIDGE RETIRED
Scope and Content Note: He later regretted giving up power. One reason he retired was that he had gotten at two conventions supplements to his pension, and it would not have paid financially to continue in office. He knew he would not hold power forever.

END OF TAPE 12, SIDE 1
Note: Tape 12, Side 2 is blank.

INTRODUCTION

SECRETARY-TREASURER WILLIAM MAGUIRE IN THE 1968 RCIA ELECTION
Scope and Content Note: He was privately negotiating with the opposition, when the administration found out, he “was very cowardly and quickly collapsed and became a staunch supporter of our ticket.” He was a liability, however, because the opposition exposed the fact that he had never worked in a store, and it was therefore a violation of the constitution for him to hold office.

VICE PRESIDENT EARL McDAVID IN THE 1968 RCIA ELECTION
Scope and Content Note: Director of the Northwest Division, which was still a weak area because of lingering Teamster influence in the food stores. Not strong, but honest. Opposition used adultery blackmail against him until he confessed to the administration forces, who straightened things out with his wife.

GENERAL COUNSEL SOL LIPPMAN IN THE 1968 RCIA ELECTION
Scope and Content Note: A womanizer who was set up and blackmailed by the opposition. Suffridge gave him a severe verbal lashing. He was fired after the election.

VICE PRESIDENT CHARLES KELLEHER IN THE 1968 RCIA ELECTION
Scope and Content Note: “A total incompetent.” A flatterer. Haletsky and DeSilva rehearsed him for Executive Board meetings. The administration did not try to bring him into its camp.

AN ACCOUNTANT FROM THE INTERNATIONAL OFFICE WHO WENT TO WORK FOR AKMAN “BROUGHT AKMAN ALL THE DIRT ON MAGUIRE”

FIRST WORD OF THE OPPOSITION SLATE
Scope and Content Note: “We knew there was something brewing, but we didn't believe that anybody would have the get-up or the courage or the organizational ability to do... something with it.” At a 1967 Executive Board meeting, Haletsky declared himself openly. “He said there was a faction that questions the leadership of the International, and wants to contest it in an election....” Suffridge “went into an anger tantrum.” Haletsky suggested a recess for factional caucuses.

CHARLES OSTERLING, ANOTHER HEIR-APPARENT
Scope and Content Note: “A good Protestant boy,” who was working in a bank when he married Suffridge's daughter. Suffridge made him an organizer in Meyers' division. He separated from his wife, but Suffridge kept trying to get them back together. Osterling came into Meyers' division with the attitude that his relationship with Suffridge would provide him special consideration, which Meyers quickly disabused him of. Meyers gave him the toughest job he had - organizing department stores - because that would be the best way for him to learn. Meyers pretty much ignored him. When Murray Plopper became Eastern Division Director, he figured it would be an asset to have Suffridge's son-in-law on his staff. When Meyers was called upon to clean up Baltimore, he sent in five people, including Osterling, who did a credible job and stayed on as one of Akman's business agents. He tired of that and sought a headquarters job from Suffridge, who obliged by placing him in charge of the Sears boycott, which Meyers was working on. When Crossler resigned as Director of Organization, Suffridge promoted Osterling to that position. Suffridge confided in Meyers that he was trying to teach Osterling enough to make him president. At that point, Meyers made up his mind to destroy Osterling.

END OF TAPE 13, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

HOW MEYERS PREVENTED OSTERLING FROM BECOMING PRESIDENT
Scope and Content Note: “Knowing Suffridge's intentions, that was...a hazardous motivation for me to engage in....He can't ever be president of the organization that I built.” When Suffridge had Meyers line up Executive Board support for a supplement to his pension and creation of the President Emeritus position, Meyers had no problems, until he came to Osterling. Osterling realized this meant Suffridge would be staying on for awhile. Osterling said to Meyers, “What the hell is the matter with the guy? Why doesn't he go out in a blaze of glory?” Osterling signed the resolution, but Meyers inmediately described the incident to Suffridge. “Suffridge promoted him to the little corner and ordered all mail to bypass him.” Osterling eventually resigned.

REITERATION OF SUFFRIDGE'S IMPORTANCE TO THE RCIA
Scope and Content Note: “Without Suffridge, the Retail Clerks International would be one of the minor..., decentralized, racket-ridden organizations...and would be very small in number....I credit him without reservations, and regardless of his personal prejudices, idiosyncracies....”

LIKENS SUFFRIDGE TO GOMPERS - A MORE USEFUL PERSON AT THE TIME THAN DEBS
Scope and Content Note: [Meyers here digresses into a discussion and evaluation of Samuel Gompers and John L. Lewis.]

MORE ON SUFFRIDGE'S IMPORTANCE TO THE RCIA
Scope and Content Note: He was willing “to bet the $400,000 of a treasury on the judgment of an honest radical.” His merciless discipline of honesty - only one salary and no other sources of income.

THE RCIA LEADERSHIP BEFORE SUFFFRIDGE AND MEYERS
Scope and Content Note: When Coulter went to Detroit, Hoffa would “give him a pint of whiskey, turn him around, and send him back to Lafayette.” Poor quality Executive Board. Today tbe Board is better only because Suffridge and Meyers spent years “creating a unified policy, a constitution, and a rigid practice which they (Board members) knew would cost their head not to follow.”

QUALITIES THAT MADE SUFFRIDGE A GOOD LEADER FOR THE RCIA
Scope and Content Note: From a small southern town; his father a grocer. Suffridge was not influencing Meyers' thought, but he had faith in Meyers' thinking. A very skillful administrator. A good judge of character, except in cases where he got silly notions like making his son-in-law president.

ARTICLES ON THE RCIA IN FORTUNE MAGAZINE AND SATURDAY EVENING POST
Scope and Content Note: Meyers is not too proud of either because the Luce interests, when they do an article, want something in return. The Post article was okay, but the headline “was something like 'A Confirmed Republican Runs an Organization of Retail Clerks.'” Story of the RCIA article in Fortune Magazine. A writer interviewed both Meyers and Suffridge and mixed up some of the quotes.

END OF TAPE 13, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

MORE ABOUT THE FORTUNE MAGAZINE ARTICLE
Scope and Content Note: When the writer asked Suffridge if the RCIA was a liberal organization, he answered that “the better wages we get for people are liberalism enough. What need has a high-paid clerk...in a Hollywood men's store for liberalism?” In the article, the writer attributed the quote to Meyers, and Suffridge insisted that Meyers buy “25,000 reprints of the damned thing.” For some reason, these things never seemed to harm the organization.

MEYERS' APPROACH TO ORGANIZING CLERKS
Scope and Content Note: Clerks are generally middle class oriented. Meyers' approach was to avoid teaching theory to clerks but to lead them slowly step by step to a realization of their economic situation. He taught his organizers to go slowly and to become friends with the employees. It was based on an understanding of a process by which the worker arrives at the loss of his fear. The process of coming to a realization that in unity there is strength.

JERRY WURF, PRESIDENT OF THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF STATE, COUNTY AND MUNICIPAL EMPLOYEES (AFSCME)
Scope and Content Note: An admirer of Meyers, who liked Meyers' radio advertisements for RCIA and today is running a similar program for his own union.

UNITY DURING THE SUFFRIDGE REGIME
Scope and Content Note: Prior to Suffridge, there were very few international organizers in the field. Locals sprang up variously but were not organized by the International. Creation of the three divisional directorships led to building of an International staff. The staff was used for organizing new workers, not for spying on established locals. The established locals were happy to loan staff to organizing drives, because they realized this could only serve to help them. “It's hard to argue with a good; you argue with an evil.”

ANECDOTE ABOUT INITIAL ORGANIZATION IN THE DENVER MAY COMPANY
Scope and Content Note: Meyers was working in Denver, and Suffridge came for a tour of the 11 states in the Western Division. Meyers called a meeting of the May Company employees. Meyers told those assembled they had just “created a miracle,” that they were doing an heroic thing by initiating the organization of department store workers in Denver which would bring better working conditions to tens of thousands of people. The next few days witnessed a continuous march of people into the union office for membership applications.

SUFFRIDGE INITIATES THE 50-50 ORGANIZER PLAN
Scope and Content Note: Took Suffridge on the western tour, and Suffridge offered each existing local a dollar-for-dollar match for any money of their own they would use to hire organizers. “It had not been the custom for international unions to give; it was more their custom to take.” This was a “Suffridgeism....And it worked...because just as soon as they accepted his proposition, they accepted directorship....” Initiated this program in the West because that was where he was from and because Meyers was director there.

BECAUSE SUFFRIDGE OFTEN CALLED UPON MEYERS AND HIS STAFF TO HELP IN TROUBLE SPOTS AND BIG DRIVES, MEYERS' STAFF EVENTUALLY BECAME DISPERSED THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY

MORE ON UNITY DURING THE SUFFRIDGE REGIME
Scope and Content Note: A period of growth and enthusiasm and a period of locals benefiting from the International. “Just like I said to Suffridge, 'we're growing too fast to write a history,' we were growing too fast to quarrel. There was nothing to quarrel about. We were always counting successes.”

SOME PHANTOM GROWTH IN THE EARLY PERIOD
Scope and Content Note: The union had officially only 6,000 members when Meyers joined. However, among the first 100,000 gained, there might have been as many as “40,000 that local unions may have withheld reporting because there was no centralized policy or discipline or method of checking.”

END OF TAPE 14, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

OAKLAND GENERAL STRIKE, 1946
Scope and Content Note: The Clerks were striking two small department stores when an organization of scab Teamsters from Los Angeles tried, with an Oakland police escort, to cross the picket line. A streetcar motorman was run over by a motorcycle policeman. This made the strike a big issue with the Central Labor Council which called a general strike in order to get the mayor to promise not to use police to escort strikebreakers. The general strike lasted three days.

DIGRESSION ON SEAFARERS' HARRY LUNDEBERG
Scope and Content Note: He was a personal friend of Meyers. Gave $100 or more each month of the Montgomery Wards' strike. AFL President William Green was financing Lundeberg's battle with Harry Bridges and the Longshoremen. This meant many thugs were on the payroll. Helped in Los Angeles drug store negotiation by walking into the bargaining session with about a dozen of his men, just to say hello “to our friends, the Clerks.” During the Clerks' battle with the Meat Cutters in San Diego, Max Osslo borrowed some of Lundeberg's muscle without asking. Lundeberg was not pleased with the San Diego Meat Cutters taking the Clerks to an NLRB election.

MORE ON THE OAKLAND GENERAL STRIKE, 1946
Scope and Content Note: Lundeberg promised all the help he could give. Meyers came into the situation from Denver on the day of a conference with the mayor and company officials. The city agreed to refrain from using police to escort strikebreakers. The general strike was called off, “everything was lovely, and the strike died on the vine.” One good result of the strike was the election of a Clerk as mayor. Meanwhile, Palmer Hoyt, in Denver, accused Meyers of initiating the general strike in 0akland and of planning the same for Denver.

DIGRESSION ABOUT PICTURES AND LITERATURE MEYERS HAS IN HIS STUDY
Scope and Content Note: Formica literature; Philadelphia literature used against Meat Cutters' Harry Poole (a list of Clerk NLRB victories over the Meat Cutters); picture of the Suffridge administrative assistant who was in league with Formica.

ANECDOTE ABOUT SELIG PERLMAN
Scope and Content Note: Perlman told Meyers he used to appeal to the liberal tendencies of Jewish garment employers when he was involved with organizing garment workers in the early days in New York and suggested that Meyers should be able to do the same with the Jewish owners of the May Company. “I said, 'They're German Jews.'”

ORGANIZING KRAMBO (KROGER) STORES IN MILWAUKEE (1957-1958)
Scope and Content Note: There was a “Greek gangster” on the RCIA payroll in Chicago, “a totally useless person,” who used physical force to organize smaller stores. He was to play a role in the Krambo campaign in Milwaukee. The Krambo chain had 13 successful stores, 800 employees, and an independent union run by an attorney. When the Kroger Company purchased the Krambo chain, Hoffa sent a crooked organizer to organize the clerks for the Teamsters. Central Division Director Murray Plopper, who was well-liked and well-known in his native Milwaukee, either was unaware or ignored the Teamster attempt. When Meyers found out, he wired all organizers and local officers in the Central Division to attend a meeting the next day in Milwaukee. At the meeting, he pointed out that the Teamsters had filed, and the Clerks were on the outside looking in, “and where in the hell is the local union?”

END OF TAPE 14, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

MORE ON ORGANIZING KRAMBO IN MILWAUKEE (1957-1958)
Scope and Content Note: There were 100 men at the meeting, and Meyers told them they were to drop everything for the next few days, visit Krambo stores, and sign up a majority, even though only 10 percent was required to get on the NLRB ballot. Plopper was angry, feeling that Meyers was overstepping his authority in his division. Within two days, close to a majority of the Krambo clerks had been signed up. The attorney from the independent union approached Meyers to make a deal; “he was crooked as a corkscrew.” Even if Meyers were inclined to buy the attorney's support, Hoffa could outbid him. Meyers' advice to the attorney was to tell whatever friends he might still have in the independent union to sign with the Clerks, who represented most of the rest of the Kroger chain. The attorney took his case to Suffridge, who told him Meyers was in charge and the only one to deal with; “that was a Suffridgeism.” The Teamster organizer bought all the male Krambo clerks leather coats and also gifts for the female clerks. The secretary-treasurer of the Milwaukee RCIA food store local (E. M. Stadelmann, Local 1469) was an older and very weak man. “In fear of what would happen, he withdrew the whole local treasury from the bank and put it in a separate account because he couldn't know which way things were going to go, and he figured that since we had found him asleep, he would be slated for the ash heap.” Looking over the local staff, Meyers found Peter Voeller, now Central Division Director, who appealed to him. A cranky, but good, organizer from Minneapolis was placed in charge, and Plopper returned to his office in Chicago. Meyers gave the man in charge his method for tallying visits and support. (In the second Krambo election, this tally procedure showed exactly the number of votes the union received in the NLRB election.) The night before the election, the Teamsters held a mass meeting at which the Chicago Greek gangster appeared as an employee of the Teamsters. He told the crowd, “I pleaded with Meyers and Suffridge to give the working people a chance; but they wouldn't listen to me.” The election was lost to the Teamsters by a narrow margin. Meyers preferred charges to prevent Teamster certification, and then flew to Atantic City for the AFL-CIO convention which was to expel the Teamsters. At the convention, Meyers overheard the Meat Cutters' Harry Poole bragging loudly about the Teamster victory in Milwaukee. Meyers told him he was counting his chickens too soon, and Poole apologized. Meyers returned to Milwaukee and made arrangements for a campaign to win the second election. The campaign was very thorough. Some employees had 13 marks by their names, meaning they had been visited 13 times before the election. The Clerks won this election by a landslide.

PETER VOELLER
Scope and Content Note: Placed in charge of the Madison, Wisconsin local, where he was very successful. Later Meyers drafted him to head the International's new Community Affairs Department.

CLARIFICATIONS ON THE KRAMBO CAMPAIGN

“SATURATION CITY,” MILWAUKEE
Scope and Content Note: Meyers did not think much of the strategy, though he did contribute materials. Probably Osterling's brainchild. Campaign was aimed at the 6,000 Gimbels-Schuster employees. Billboards, signs on buses, etc. Except for a few janitors, no one from Gimbels would even talk to the union. As a by-product, however, several small stores did join the union. “The notion that you could organize Gimbels-Schuster in that way was dynamically a wrong notion. Meyers feels the saturation has to be within the 6,000 clerks, not from a distance.

END OF TAPE 15, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

FOREIGN AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT
Scope and Content Note: “Something that is very distasteful for me to talk about.” The Department collaborated with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). Each vice president, in turn, took trips to Europe. They were briefed by the State Department and the CIA before going and were debriefed upon return. When Meyers' turn for a trip came, he refused. Suffridge did not object; he sent Meyers to Hawaii and San Juan instead. Gerard O'Keefe, a former CIA man, was hired to head the Department. Meyers had continual visits from delegations of foreign trade unionists, but he always confined his remarks to the organizing methods of the RCIA.

POLITICAL VISIT OF CHILEAN DELEGATION OF TRADE UNIONISTS
Scope and Content Note: For an hour, Meyers talked to them about organizing, and then, instead of asking about organizing, each made a statement about how terrible and repressive the Allende government was. Meyers made no comments, asked if they had any questions about what he had discussed, and terminated the meeting. His picture with the delegation appeared in the next issue of The Advocate. “They were obviously set ups.” When he heard of Allende's assassination, he was sorry he had met with the delegation. Suffridge was a thoroughly patriotic man, and he believed he was doing the right thing. He thought it was his duty to collaborate with the CIA.”

JAY LOVESTONE
Scope and Content Note: Lovestone worked closely with O'Keefe and Suffridge. Meyers believes Lovestone was working for U.S. intelligence while he was heading the American Communist Party. Lovestone and William Foster competed for leadership of the American Communist Party, which had to be conferred by Josef Stalin. “This turned into a frequent race to Moscow.” When Foster won the race, Lovestone returned to the United States and set up the Communist Party Majority. He then became an advisor to David Dubinsky, president of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union, who was fighting the left wing in his union. “From that point on, Jay Lovestone was the supporter of just about every dictator and every reactionary force, any place in the world.”

WHY MEYERS DID NOT LIKE THE RCIA's FOREIGN AFFAIRS ACTIVITIES
Scope and Content Note: Meyers felt this collaboration with the government on foreign affairs did not look good when the U.S. labor movement was always criticizing Russian unions for the same thing. He always restricted his remarks, even at international conferences, to methods of organizing white collar workers.

COMMUNITY RELATIONS DEPARTMENT
Scope and Content Note: “It did not know what it had to do.” Meyers agitated that the Department should start with day care centers and the like for the membership. Eventually, because of the civil rights movement, the department wound up with black leaders who “knew what they had to do.” It was Suffridge's idea to create the Community Affairs Department.

ACTIVE BALLOT CLUB (ABC)
Scope and Content Note: RCIA started this rather than the Committee on Political Education (COPE) because of Suffridge's feelings about the AFL-CIO's political/legislative action. AFL-CIO lobbyist Andy Biemiller was in a rut. Charles Lipsen, a professional lobpyist and a good one, was hired to head ABC. Lipsen went with Suffridge on his world trip with Lyndon Johnson. Lipsen was fired after the 1968 RCIA election because he was playing both sides.

END OF TAPE 15, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

CHARLES LIPSEN, RCIA LOBBYIST
Scope and Content Note: Meyers disliked him. “He was one of the best lobbyists on the Hill, and he was one of the most ignorant men I have ever met.” Suffridge liked him because he departed from Biemiller's style. He did not neglect anti-labor Congressmen. After the RCIA fired him and he gave up lobbying, he had a book ghost-written for Penthouse in which he explained how he used to pimp for Congressmen. Meyers refused to accompany him to Capitol Hill. While Lipsen could not convince anti-union Congressmen to support a bill, he could use them to open doors to other Congressmen. “Suffridge did not want to be under total obligation to the AFL-CIO political efforts.”

SEARS AND NATHAN SHEFFERMAN
Scope and Content Note: Meyers organized Sears in Boston. Meyers testified before the Senate Labor Committee (McClellan Committee) which produced “thousands of pages of how Sears used Shefferman and underworld tactics to destroy a union.” A liberal journalist interviewed Meyers by phone for three hours and wrote up the story very well. Meyers had it reprinted in quantity. Daniel Bell also wrote an article on Meyers' fight with Sears, which appeared in Fortune Magazine. Even though Meyers had been able to purchase 25,000 reprints of the Fortune article on Suffridge, the magazine would not offer reprints of this article. Meyers got around this by having Senator Hubert Humphrey read the entire article into the Congressional Record. Thus, since he could not get reprints with the Fortune masthead, he got them with the Congressional Record's.

MORE ON LIPSEN
Scope and Content Note: Fired after Housewright elected president and then went to work for the Teamsters. Followed that with his Penthouse book on how a lobbyist works.

WHY RCIA MOVED HEADQUARTERS FROM LAFAYETTE TO WASHINGTON IN 1954
Scope and Content Note: Lafayette was “a nothing town,” and the union had outgrown its building. Also, Washington, D.C., had become the headquarters of the labor movement. Meyers was in Washington when the headquarters were moved there. Suffridge told him to move the Eastern Division office to Philadelphia, and just before Meyers moved himself there, Suffridge appointed Plopper Eastern Director and put Meyers in the International office.

MERGER WITH THE AMALGAMATED MEAT CUTTERS
Scope and Content Note: Meyers disagrees with Pat Gorman's assessment that merger talks, previously promising, died when RCIA moved to Washington. The move was in 1954, and that was the time when Clerks and Meat Cutters were fighting jurisdictional battles all over the country. Obviously Suffridge was not keen for merger in those days since he helped Meyers destroy the AFL-CIO Food and Beverage Department, which could have been a step toward merger. After Jim Housewright was elected, talks resumed; and while Housewright felt Gorman was a block to merger, there was a time when he thought merger was close and feared Meyers would oppose it. The merger was finally consummated in 1979. At that time, the Meat Cutters had good reasons for merger, but the RCIA could have continued to grow without the Amalgamated.

MERGER ISSUES
Scope and Content Note: “The bargaining chiefly consisted of what their (Meat Cutters' officers and staff) pensions would be.”

END OF TAPE 16, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

MORE ON MERGER ISSUE
Scope and Content Note: Meyers feels the main reason there was no merger in the 1950's, was because the Meat Cutters at the time had a better pension plan. After pensions, the chief concern was the division of offices.

MEYERS' CONCERNS ABOUT THE MERGER
Scope and Content Note: The RCIA had good organizers, but the Amalgamated had “consummate politicians, people who could collaborate with the Teamsters..., and I...kind of got a bad taste in my mouth” when a recent Action issue praised the Teamsters' late president, Frank Fitzsimmons. Meyers is concerned that the political skills of the Meat Cutters might result in their control of the organization.

WHY RCIA WAS SO SUCCESSFUL AT ORGANIZING
Scope and Content Note: First, Suffridge, a capable administrator. Second, and more dynamically, “We were a fashion-plate bunch of sissies so long as we were a small organization of men's clothing and shoe store people....When the chain supermarkets became an important factor..., they brought youth into the retail industry.” Youth has energy. RCIA differed from CIO unions in that the CIO unions themselves were young, but their membership was not necessarily young. For CI0 members, many of whom had been exploited for years, it was a liberation movement.

SUFFRIDGE'S ROLE AS PRESIDENT-EMERITUS
Scope and Content Note: The RCIA did not have a two-headed leadership after Housewright's election in 1968. Suffridge made a mistake. Lippman never had the courage to tell Suffridge his plan for retaining control of the union after picking his successor was not in conformity with the National Labor Relations Act.

JAY FOREMAN POINTED OUT THE ILLEGALITY OF SUFFRIDGE BEING CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD
Scope and Content Note: Foreman was an attorney for Adam Clayton Powell's House Labor committee when Suffridge hired him and put him in a little office near Meyers. Meyers put him to work on pension plans. Foreman saw that, if the administration forces won the 1968 election, the NLRB could set the election aside on the grounds that the RCIA constitution was not legal because of the Chairman of the Board position. When it was explained to Suffridge that the constitution had to be changed, he lost his temper. The Executive Board, subject to convention ratification, eliminated the Chairman of the Board position, but kept the President-Emeritus post. “There his plan fell, because as Chairman of the Board, he would have had the power to temporarily remove the president.”

HOUSEWRIGHT OUSTS SUFFRIDGE
Scope and Content Note: Housewright for a while acted submissive to Suffridge, “but the hatred was there and the cruelty was brewing.” Housewright had Suffridge's office cleared out and told him that the President-Emeritus office was only honorary and not entitled to an office at union headquarters.

END OF INTERVIEW