Subseries: McMahon, Walter C.

INTRODUCTION

BIOGRAPHICAL BACKGROUND
Scope and Content Note: Born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, 1925. One sister. Mother a housewife and worked part-time in a drug store. Father was a bartender, active in the Veterans of Foreign Wars. McMahon got a high school education and entered the service for World War II, 1942 to 1946. While in grade school, he used to deliver groceries in a wagon for tips. The grocery business always interested him. “You were always sure of a paycheck. People always had to eat.” Came to Manitowoc after the war because he had married a girl from there.

OUTLINE OF CAREER WITH A & P
Scope and Content Note: Started in Manitowoc in 1947, then to West Bend (as assistant manager), then commuted from West Bend to Milwaukee for four years. Managers' training school in Chicago and Milwaukee. Relief manager in Milwaukee. Very short stint as manager in Platteville in 1959. Then manager in Baraboo, 1959 to 1972, followed by a year of night stocker in Madison.

FIRST JOB WITH A & P, MANITOWOC
Scope and Content Note: Was working in a factory and drawing his post-service $20 a week “unemployment.” Manager of the A & P where he shopped convinced him to come to work there. Started as a checker, working 8 a.m. to 6 p.m., with an hour off to eat, and 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. on Friday, with two hours off to eat. “I was a little outspoken. I didn't know if I was going to last as long as I did with A & P when I started, but I kept my mouth shut and took orders and rose up through the ranks.” It was not unusual for men to be checkers at that time. Also did stocking, unloaded trucks, marked prices, and carried out groceries. Did not especially like checking, but the pay was adequate, and he was pretty fast and accurate. Store had about 20 employees and 4 checkouts, “which was real good for 1947.” All self-service.

WEST BEND A & P
Scope and Content Note: Was recommended to become assistant manager here by his Manitowoc manager. The West Bend store had “one of the last husband and wife teams that ran A & P stores.” Husband was manager, wife bookkeeper. “They ran a pretty tight ship. They were nice to work for.” Store was located in a shopping center, good-sized, 18 to 20 employees. He worked noon to 9 p.m. and all day Saturday. Closed Sunday. Had no training to be assistant manager, just on-the-job experience.

MORE ON THE MANITOWOC STORE
Scope and Content Note: Bakery and produce delivered daily in the morning. Stocked the bread first and then set up produce. Opened at 8 a.m., ready for business at 9 a.m.; very few customers during the first hour in the morning.

ASSISTANT MANAGER DUTIES AT WEST BEND
Scope and Content Note: Had no managerial or department head experience prior to becoming assistant manager. Duties were mainly as grocery department head--make sure shelves stocked, lots of ordering. Bakery was ordered by the bookkeeper or a checker. Clerks stocked Jane Parker bakery; vendors stocked their own products.

A & P PUSHED ANN PAGE AND JANE PARKER BUT DID CARRY OTHER BRANDS

MILWAUKEE A & P, 27th STREET AND KILBOURN (911 NORTH 27th STREET)
Scope and Content Note: In addition to being assistant manager at this store, McMahon did a lot of relief managing throughout Milwaukee. Store was about the same size as those in Manitowoc and West Bend. No real differences between smaller town and big city stores; largely a walk-in trade at this store.

MANAGERS' SCHOOL
Scope and Content Note: Classroom training in bookkeeping and company policies. On-the-job training in various departments of various stores in Chicago. Tour of A & P's bakery and coffee plants. Two weeks in Chicago. Then put back in Milwaukee “for more training until such a time as a managership became available.” Training was helpful because of the experiences with a different unit of A & P (Chicago).

DESCRIPTION OF McMAHON'S A & P STORE IN BARABOO
Scope and Content Note: In the spring of 1959, sent to manage Platteville store, but after a month or so, was transferred to Baraboo because of a disagreement between the manager there and the supervisor. Baraboo store was fairly new. Four checkouts, one of which was an express. Clean. Was a remodelled auto dealership. Same size as the West Bend store. Classified as a special development store, doing about $12,000 per week business in the off season, and $15,000 to $18,000 during the tourist season. Ten to twelve employees. A union store. Had a first clerk rather than assistant manager because the store was not large enough for an assistant manager. Produce department head; meat department head. Some new equipment; some hand-me-down from larger stores. Equipment adequate. Refrigerated produce department. At first no conveyor belts at checkouts, but people did unload their own carts. Remodelled in the late 1960s.

COMPETITION WITH OTHER STORES IN BARABOO
Scope and Content Note: “We tried to stress the price comparison compared to our other two competitors in town....” Major competitors were an independent (Pierce's Super Market) and a Super Valu. There was also a Kroger store only a half block away. Watched each others' specials.

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

BARABOO A & P HAD PARKING LOT WHICH HELD ABOUT 50 CARS

MANAGER DUTIES
Scope and Content Note: “Primarily, you're responsible for the well being and the happiness of your employees. You're responsible for the stock, of breaking an even inventory--you had to be careful of pilferage.... Responsible for the accuracy of the reports every week; ordering--that you didn't order too much or too little. You were supposed to check the produce department head's order....”

MORE ON COMPETITION WITH OTHER STORES IN BARABOO
Scope and Content Note: “If there was a big special with our competitor, why, we would report that to the supervisor.... If he (competitor) had bananas for ten cents a pound, and we knew that it was costing him more than ten cents a pound, we called it in right away. We did an awful lot of that here through the years. They were what they call footballing....” The biggest competitor was Pierce's, an independent. Kroger was smaller than McMahon's A & P, but newer.

DELEGATION OF AUTHORITY IN THE STORE
Scope and Content Note: First clerk did the training of new hires. Training of checkers depended on how quickly the individual picked it up. Gave a good deal of authority to the produce head and the meat department head.

LIMITATION OF MANAGER'S ORDERING AUTHORITY
Scope and Content Note: If A & P had a special, and the supervisor “thought that you weren't ordering enough, he'd add a few cases on to you. And there was no sending anything back.” Ann Page products had a date code on them. Items like jams and salad dressing had to be sold in about a four to six month period, “and if you didn't get rid of them by that expiration date on there, you were in trouble.” Auditors would come around unannounced to do a cash audit, and sometimes they would bring another auditor with them who would check the prices and dates on the products. He would “write you up on that there. That would go into the general office and pretty soon, you'd hear about it.” Thus, rotation was very important. First thing a stocker was taught was how to read the Ann Page date code.

RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE A & P MILWAUKEE UNIT AND ITS STORES
Scope and Content Note: Store building was leased, and the rent, utilities, etc. were paid directly out of Milwaukee. Employees were paid in cash by the local store. If no union, pay raises were recommended by the manager and approved or disapproved by the supervisor.

MORE ON MANAGERS' LIMITED ORDERING AUTHORITY
Scope and Content Note: Payment for merchandise was deducted from the store's bank account. Managers never knew what A & P paid for a particular item. If an item had to be sold because of age, and it was an item sent by A & P over and above what had been ordered, the manager could get a store credit. If buyers overbought and overstocked the warehouse, the merchandise was sent to the stores whether the manager wanted it or not. If a manager had to reduce an item to get rid of it, he would have to cover that loss on the books somehow--by padding the broken-merchandise-by-customer category or bloated cans category. Would use fictitious names of customers who “broke” items. Weekly inventory of meat and produce. If meat or produce was getting old and had to be marked below the price prescribed by A & P, “every department manager had a different way of covering up how he did that there. I never questioned any of my managers (department heads), and they always showed a gross profit....” There was a certain amount allowed for shrinkage in meat and produce, but the supervisor had to be informed of price reductions.

SHRINKAGE IN GROCERIES
Scope and Content Note: A sizable breakage or theft required writing up a store credit and informing the supervisor who would have to okay it; otherwise it would not be honored in the main office. “Anything up to $10, you were allowed.” If, however, a manager got in the habit of consistently writing up $9 credits, “then...you'd hear from the supervisor.”

QUARTERLY INVENTORY BY A CREW FROM THE MAIN OFFICE WOULD DETERMINE HOW WELL A STORE WAS DOING

ONLY OPTIONS FOR A MANAGER IF A STORE WAS NOT DOING WELL WAS TO SUGGEST TO THE SUPERVISOR THAT PRICES BE LOWERED TO MEET OR UNDERSELL COMPETITION

BARABOO PRICES COMPARED TO MILWAUKEE PRICES
Scope and Content Note: Originally, all were the same, but as transportation costs rose, four price zones, based on the radius from Milwaukee, were established.

LOCAL PURCHASES OF MERCHANDISE
Scope and Content Note: One supervisor gave considerable leeway in buying produce locally. The retail price, however, was determined by Milwaukee. At first, could buy eggs locally, but that was dropped, probably because of stricter inspection laws. When bought locally, the farmer was paid in cash, and a record of the transaction was sent in with the weekly report.

MORE ON THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE LOCAL STORE TO A & P MILWAUKEE OFFICE
Scope and Content Note: Store banked locally, but the money was transferred to a Milwaukee bank. Manager could not make withdrawals from the local account. Payment for everything other than wages and local merchandise purchases from farmers was done through Milwaukee, including local bakery and soda pop vendors, local advertising, etc. Manager would get a copy of the weekly ad and check the prices and make sure he had all the items advertised. If he did not have an advertised item, he could substitute, at regular price, something he was overstocked with. Most of the advertised items were A & P products.

DISPLAYS
Scope and Content Note: Left up to the manager, but A & P products usually were featured on the end displays. “After awhile, I think A & P changed their thinking. They would let us put up a display of...Heinz, Libby's or something..., but we'd also have to put up, right alongside of it, Ann Page or Quaker Maid (another A & P label) product with the price differential.”

STORE LAYOUT DETERMINED BY A & P MILWAUKEE OFFICE
Scope and Content Note: Depending on the size of the store, generally layout the same in all A & P stores. Customers used to complain because the bakery was always the first thing in the store.

MEAT AND PRODUCE EXPECTED TO MAKE A CERTAIN DOLLAR FIGURE EACH MONTH DETERMINED BY THE STORE'S PAST PERFORMANCE

END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2

INTRODUCTION

MORE ON MEAT AND PRODUCE WORKING AGAINST A GROSS PROFIT
Scope and Content Note: Determined by the department's past performance, not working against the total store. Also expected to produce a certain percent of the store's profit.

McMAHON, AS A MANAGER, AND THE RETAIL CLERKS INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION (RCIA)
Scope and Content Note: Store was organized before he came. When the union made gains, managers were told to “get more work out of what you got. If you can't get more work out of it, cut their hours. There was nothing else I could do. I had to follow the orders from the supervisor. He was, in my opinion, a non-union man.” In the fall and winter, after the tourist season, he would lay off part-timers, but he never had to lay off any full-timers. He followed the contract strictly in regard to seniority rights, even if it meant having a poorer worker get more hours.

STORE HOURS
Scope and Content Note: 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. daily; in summer, closed at 6 p.m. on Saturday; open Sunday 9 a.m. to 1 p.m., May to September. Would have only two or three employees on Sunday--himself or the first clerk, a checker, and sometimes another clerk who was there largely to watch for pilferage. Opened Sundays mainly for the tourists; local people never did get into the habit of doing weekly shopping on Sunday.

PERSONNEL PROBLEMS
Scope and Content Note: A few grievances; settled between him and the union representative. Never had discipline problems; just contract interpretation differences.

SHOPPERS
Scope and Content Note: A & P had mystery shoppers checking for pricing and courtesy but only for a short time.

MANAGERS NOT INVOLVED IN NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE UNION; OPINIONS NEVER SOUGHT BY COMPANY NEGOTIATORS

WORK RULES
Scope and Content Note: Posted; regarding employee purchases, breaks. Good grooming expected. White aprons at first, then smocks. White shirts required for stockers.

STOCKING AT BARABOO A & P
Scope and Content Note: At night until midnight during the tourist season. A full-time employee would be in charge. Normally night stockers were locked in the store in order to avoid paying the key man differential prescribed by the union contract. In case of fire, they were to break a window in order to get out. McMahon would unlock the doors at midnight.

CLERK WORK DONE BY THE MANAGER
Scope and Content Note: McMahon did everything in his store, including a little meat cutting.

A & P HIERARCHY
Scope and Content Note: Store manager was responsible to a supervisor, who was responsible to the sales manager of the Milwaukee unit, who was responsible to the general superintendent of the Milwaukee unit, who was responsible to people in Chicago, who were responsible to people at headquarters in New York. Also had supervisors and superintendents for meat, produce, etc.

TYPICAL WORK DAY FOR McMAHON
Scope and Content Note: Was generally at the store whenever it was open. First thing in the morning, he would check to see if deliveries had been made during the night. Would then put out the new bread, mark down the day old, and put it on the day-old rack. Meanwhile, produce head was stocking produce rack; McMahon helped him if he had time. Opened the safe and put in cash registers. Rest of the day he would help out where needed and spend a good deal of time on book work, reports and mail. In a small town like Baraboo, he would let in customers before store opened if they were waiting; this would not be done in a large town. Supervised the front end during the day. Tried to set aside some time each day to visit with the customers; this was as much to get away from the pressures of paperwork as for customer relations. As time went on and he was forced to cut help, he had less time for customer relations work; would make a point of doing some checking during the day in order to get in some customer relations. Believed in customer relations; never told his employees to cut back on it, even when he was being pressured to get more work out of the employees. “I think that is the best thing there is for business.”

HIRING
Scope and Content Note: Looked for honesty and friendliness when hiring. Looked for promptness and adequate speed during the 30-day probation period.

DELIVERIES AT BARABOO A & P
Scope and Content Note: Nightly at first, then three times a week, then only twice; this decrease due to increased transportation costs.

McMAHON RELIEVED OF JOB AS MANAGER
Scope and Content Note: Got along with his supervisor, but “they thought I wasn't doing a good enough job for them here, that the business wasn't what they thought it should be or could have been in a town like this. That's the only reason they gave me.” A & P in Baraboo simply could not compete with the independent (Pierce's). Sales were going down, the store was losing its image and was not up to date; freezer cases broke down every week or so, accompanied by spoilage. During McMahon's tenure, the store had received new shelving, a new tile floor, and was painted. Store was not competitive in either prices or service. While McMahon was forced to cut hours, the competition had plenty of baggers; McMahon himself was doing most of the carryouts at his store. Because his store was union and Pierce's was not, he was at a competitive disadvantage. The store remained open for another five years after he left.

McMAHON'S REACTION TO HIS DISMISSAL
Scope and Content Note: When fired, the company gave him no options. He asked if he could continue on with A & P in order to put in his 25 years. A & P was reluctant. He was dismissed on a Friday and called on Saturday afternoon and told he could work in Madison as a night stocker. Wound up putting in 25 years and two months with A & P. “I felt a little bitter. I really did. I gave them the best years of my life. I thought I was doing a good job. I gave them a good day's work every day. I was honest with them.” Did not mind going to Madison as a night stocker. Knew the manager in Madison, and he and other managers thought McMahon had received a raw deal.

THE A & P STORE AT MADISON
Scope and Content Note: In Hilldale Shopping Center. He and Bob Heslip (who had been manager of the A & P in Portage and with whom an interview in this series was conducted) worked from 10 p.m. until 6 a.m. Eighteen to twenty part-time stockers worked with them from 9 p.m. until midnight. A big store. Deliveries were made at least four nights a week. “They always had big shots coming down there, and they wanted that store in perfect shape every morning, which it was.” About 4 a.m., started cleaning the store; scrubbed the floor last thing. Facing off: if low on an item, items remaining had to be pulled toward front of the shelf so it would look full, look “like it was ready for grand opening.” This had to be done each night.

GOT A JOB WITH ISENBERG HARDWARE, BARAB00
Scope and Content Note: Got it through an ad in the newspaper. Did not pay as well hourly, but did on a weekly basis because of the overtime. Took the job for a couple reasons--less travel and more people contact. On an hourly wage. Did a lot of ordering but had to check with the floor manager or the owner.

END OF TAPE 2, SIDE 1

INTRODUCTION

ISENBERG HARDWARE SWITCHED FROM OUR OWN HARDWARE TO TRUE VALUE HARDWARE
Scope and Content Note: Much greater margin of profit with True Value because True Value was much larger and dealt in much greater volume. Our Own was quite bitter about the switch.

McMAHON'S EMPLOYMENT AFTER LEAVING A & P
Scope and Content Note: With Isenberg Hardware for five years. Sold ads for the Baraboo News for three years. Then worked for Vivid, Inc., outdoor advertising, for awhile. Currently sells ads for WRPQ Radio and is running for City Treasurer of Baraboo.

MAJOR CHANGES IN FOOD STORE WORK AND FOOD STORE BUSINESS
Scope and Content Note: Automation of ordering. Customer relations. “I don't think there is the rapport now between a customer and a clerk or the owner or the manager that there was years ago.” Mechanization of the checkouts. Cash registers changed while he was manager; an improvement. New machines had larger buttons and a memory to hold taxables until the order was all rung up.

INNOVATIONS AT BARABOO A & P
Scope and Content Note: Kept up with innovations “as best as they could, as the budget would allow.” The rural areas usually got hand-me-down equipment from the bigger stores in the larger cities. Very seldom got a brand new item.

“I ENJOYED IT VERY MUCH..., BUT I DON'T THINK I WOULD GO BACK INTO IT NOW. I DON'T KNOW IF I COULD STAND THE PACE”
Scope and Content Note: Disliked the 12-hour days and weekend work.

WHY A & P LEFT WISCONSIN
Scope and Content Note: “They had too many chiefs and not enough Indians. They had a supervisor for this, for that. For every department, they had a superintendent. Each one of them had a company car. Each one of them, I'm sure, was drawing a five-figure salary. And they cut the help in the stores. They expected the managers to do more and more and more to pay for these gentlemen that were riding around.”

MORE ON IMPORTANT CHANGES IN FOOD STORES--NON-FOOD ITEMS AND WORK FORCE REDUCTION
Scope and Content Note: Addition of drugs and magazines were hard for McMahon to accept, but these items were added because of the huge mark-up. “Now you can go into a grocery store, and you don't have to go to any other place to get what you need.” Even though his store was small, doing only about $12,000 a week business when he left, it had to carry each of these new non-food items. Another change was when the union got a clause in the contract forbidding vendors from stocking. Because McMahon's store was too small and he could not add more workers to do this stocking, he ended up doing it himself.

END OF INTERVIEW