How would you---was there a noticeable difference in the work at the Forest Products Lab after the war, as opposed to before?

Was there what?

A noticeable difference in the amount of work that was being done, or the type of work that was being done?

Well, see after the war we didn't have all of the military, were not putting the demands on the Lab for, for the packaging work that they did during the war, because it--the war they started out with practically nothing. And then by the end of the war, they had the tools to train their own people and learn from past experiences and as they say then, the packaging group just kind of withered and died lets say because you know there wasn't, there wasn't a drive for that information. The, the, a pallet group got organized after the war, there's a national wooden pallet makers association I think it is, as far as I know they still exist and ah, there were other groups that started up and there were other groups that started up that kind of promote and keep this thing going. D10 packaging in ASTM still exists I don't go to any the meetings anymore but I have maintained my membership emeritus I guess you'd have to say. So I, I do get information about it, so I know that the group still exists and they're working on the development towards improving packaging procedures. But I don't think the Lab per se is involved in it anymore, at least not to the point it was in '40, '50, '60s and in the '70s began to taper off. It just happened in, I got in on the ground floor when, when I started I think there were maybe six of us besides. There was Tac and Ray, the chief and the assistant, Borkenhagen, myself, yeah maybe five or six of us that moved down there. And then we got bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and then smaller, and smaller, and smaller. It just, it, it never became a division like they have today in the Laboratory, and actually all of those divisions have really changed. As I talk to other people, in other words, we had a group of well timber mechanics that doesn't exist as that anymore, I think mechanics or something or other, I don't know. What, what's this building they're building out there? That's for them. That new building. That's that, that's the mechanics Lab or something or other, isn't that it?

I'm not quite sure.

Well I'm not quite sure either, but that's something new. I don't know do they---I haven't even, I haven't been over in the other building for years and what I call the new building do they still have the paper equipment, paper machine equipment?

I, I've only been in this building so I'm not---

This, this is the building that was built in the 1930s. That I remember. And originally we had the paper---this was pulp and paper. Where you are now. And then it was, well part of preserva---no then the, etymologists took over, the bugs!

The bugs.

And um.