Well maybe switching gears and talking a little bit about your career here. I think you said earlier that you retired in March 2005?

Right.

Okay. Why did you decide to retire and what have you been doing since?

Well, I had a big life change then, my first wife died about it will be close to twelve years ago now. So about five years ago I had met a woman and we decided to get married so I just thought it was time to move on to a different life before I got so old that all I could do is go home and sit in a chair. I've been here quite a few years so you know I had a good retirement, I just wanted to change my lifestyle so I did. One of the things that I've done since I retired is I started working with turning wood items on a lathe---I don't know whether you familiar with that or not. But I've always thought wood was a very beautiful material and I spent most of my career on the sort of dry, scientific, technical aspect of it so I thought I would want to get more to the aesthetic nature of wood so I bought a wood lathe, then started turning bowls and vases and various other things that you can turn on a lathe. I mean I really like it, it's very enjoyable to start with a dirty, ugly chunk of log and open it up on a lathe and then start to see the beautiful grain and figure and color of the wood, and then turn it into something like a bowl or a vase. So I've started doing that several years ago and my wife and I just this summer started getting into craft fairs so we've been to four or five already this year. It was very gratifying to see the people actually buy some of the stuff I make. Anyways, that's sort of a shift in my working with wood into just a---what is it? The left brain instead of the right brain, or vice versa, or whatever.

Sounds great.

Yeah it's fun.

Do you still maintain any relationships with people or past colleagues here at the Lab?

Yes. I have in the last---the first couple of years I retired I just wanted to get away and start something different, but yeah in the past year I have been working with a couple of people here on a research project. I've come in and helped them plan it and do it, and I really enjoy that. I don't know how much more I will in the future, maybe some, I don't want to very much but I like to keep contact here, keep my hand in it a little bit.