Do you mind if we stop for a second?

Sure.

Ok, well, we were just talking about the Forest Service and, I guess, do you feel that there's been a change over time in how the Forest Products Lab or the Forest Service has been perceived by the public?

Oh sure, sure, and I think it's changed. There was a time, I don't recall, my recollection is probably when the environmental movement really got going strongly, I think the idea of growing trees with the intent of cutting them down to make something out of them became, really fell out of the public favor. And it was kind of, from my perspective, it was kind of fanned by the extremists, but anyway the net result, of course, was that they shut down most of the harvest from most of the national forests. I guess the good news is at least trees are there waiting until somebody decides what to do next, but it's, of course, that really devastated a lot of communities in Oregon and Washington. In fact, I heard something just the other day on NPR about some of these counties in Oregon that used to get their percentage of the revenue from the sale. Now they don't know how their going to, I mean, it's really hit home now. They don't know how they're going to fix the roads, and they're going to have to close public libraries, but anyway. But that's kind of a manifestation that started probably ten, twelve, fifteen years ago. Now the whole, counties and communities are going to have to restructure in certain parts of the country because they don't have the revenue now. But, as I say, the good news is that the trees are still standing there and then if they, for whatever reason and with whatever justification, they decide they can go back. As a graduate forester, the whole notion from the very beginning was that we use this material wisely and the, you know, conservation and all these mottos that Gifford Pinchot and whatnot. So, to me, the idea that you have to stop completely struck me as sort of absurd. But anyway, I realize that's the way the political winds have blown. But, once again, I say that the trees are standing there, so when the political winds change, maybe they'll have a more moderate approach to it.