Is there one particular project, either through your travels or at the Lab itself that stands out from your memories?

Well, you know, at this point I've told you what a great place it was to work, but you know it doesn't always work that well. And I think the biggest headache I had, which was a dealing with a preservative called cellon. It was invented by a company called Koppers out in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. They would dissolve the biocide in LP gas, liquid petroleum gas, which is [a liquid under pressure]. Anyway, they had it devised; they put the biocide in the LP gas, treat the wood, and when the wood came out of the cylinder after treatment, it looked like it had never been treated. And the way it performed in the field I kind of think it probably never had been treated because you couldn't see any evidence that it had been treated. It was a big headache to us because we could see the cellon treatment failing all around us and the company just kept pouring more money into [the process] and continuing to do it. But I'd say if I was just going to pick out one bad thing that I can call on, and that would be cellon. It was a disaster and headache to me and I had to deal with the Koppers company people. They were trying to convince me that this was a great process [although] our tests didn't show it. So it was [a problem] to me. Although, I guess if you only have one thing in thirty years that bothers you, that ain't too bad.

You have to realize that the Lab is a federal Lab and as such our main purpose is to make sure that the people of the United States get a fair deal when they buy treated wood. We weren't there to help a company get rich, we were trying to get people that were buying treated wood to get what they thought they were getting. [Short pause].