I guess, while you were engaged in your education did you have any particular desire to end up here?

No.

Or had you thought about working here at all?

No, no, I really hadn't. I started out school in, as a mechanical engineer, and then had a real interest in chemistry and mathematics and so forth, so I switched to chemical engineering. And it never really occurred to me that they hired chemical engineers here. I was thinking more, you know, what the professions were, were wood technologists and people who specialize in wood technology. So, no, I didn't have that as any kind of a goal at all. But it's been a wonderful place to work, that's for sure. It was a great career.

And, so, you of course had heard about the Lab before starting here.

Oh sure, yeah, I knew a lot of contemporaries of my father. And I didn't know so much about what was going on, you know, in the last, well, from 1970 to '75 before I started. So, I did know a lot about it, and I knew a lot of people here.

And did you have any particular impressions of the Lab? Or did you just sort of know about it and know what was going on? Or did you think of it as a particularly?

I thought about it growing up as a, not a particularly challenging or interesting career. I thought, you know, being in business and in the private sector would be much more exciting, and much more rewarding. But, in the end it turned out to be the---both careers were very similar in the kind of problems you run into and the kind of encounters and experiences. So, it was, it was, I was proven to be wrong in my original thinking.

Right. So, you started here in 1975?

That's right.